Civility notes (was "Traversable instances for (,,) a b")

[Tony Morris]

I was hoping an apology could be accepted, and move on.


On 03/04/17 18:13, Simon Peyton Jones via Libraries wrote:
>
> Friends
>
>  
>
> I second what Tom says below.
>
>  
>
> Almost everyone expresses their views with respect, even when
> disagreeing.  The exceptions are (in my guess) mostly unintentional,
> at least in the extent of the offence caused.   That does not make
> them unimportant, because a slow slippage in our collective standards
> is, over time corrosive.  But it does mean that we can draw breath, as
> Tom has helpfully done here, and without condemning anyone reset our
> standards.
>
>  
>
> I’ve been talking to a couple of people about whether it would be
> useful to have an explicit Haskell Community Code of Conduct.  Many
> online communities have one (e.g. Rust
> <https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html>), and it might be
> helpful for everyone to have a concrete baseline rather than an
> unwritten standard.  Any views on that?
>
>  
>
> Simon
>
>  
>
> *From:*Libraries [mailto:libraries-bounces at haskell.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Tom Murphy
> *Sent:* 02 April 2017 19:18
> *To:* Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiexcel at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* libraries <libraries at haskell.org>
> *Subject:* Civility notes (was "Traversable instances for (,,) a b")
>
>  
>
> Hi Fumiaki!
>
>      I agree with you that some poorly-chosen words by a few people
> have soured this conversation, but please don't let that turn you
> completely off of the productive conversation most of us are
> attempting to have! I think it's largely been successful, too: even if
> many of us haven't changed our -1/+1 votes, I for one have had my
> ideas challenged and have a more nuanced view than before talking with
> everyone here.
>
>      Henning and Edward are two examples (one from each side of the
> +1/-1 chasm) who have been aided by this discussion, in making
> important progress to finding a middle ground (each in the form of
> proposed compiler changes).
>
>      To the rest of us: Fumiaki regretting having posted here is a
> pretty stark example of why speaking politely matters. People being
> scared away and feeling unwelcome is a real phenomenon, and we need to
> do our part to fix it. I'd propose:
>
>      - If you haven't read it already, SPJ recently wrote a heartfelt
> letter on the subject [0]. We've gotten better since then, but clearly
> we're not finished.
>
>      - Civility is a norm, and norms sometimes need to be enforced.
> From a distance, we all look bad (and unwelcoming!) if anyone is
> hostile and we don't make it clear it's not acceptable. Speak up! That
> said, everyone makes mistakes - try to give people space to apologize
> and move on.
>
>      - If someone says something insulting to you, please take that as
> a sign to become more polite, not less so. The downward spiral is real.
>
>  
>
>      If you're called out for saying something regrettable (again,
> regardless of if you're +1 or -1 on this issue), *please* take our
> desire for civil conversation seriously. Responses like (I'm
> paraphrasing, and not trying to cite anyone specifically): "It was a
> joke (mostly)" and "It's your fault if you didn't get the joke" are
> worse than not writing anything at all. Ideal would be a quick "Sorry!"
>
> Thanks, all!
>
> Tom
>
>
> [0] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2016-September/024995.html
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fumiaki Kinoshita
> <fumiexcel at gmail.com <mailto:fumiexcel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     The discussion has diverged to flaming due to a few offensive
>     people. I guess I shouldn't have posted a proposal here, I should
>     have submitted a patch instead.
>
>      
>
>     2017-03-23 19:53 GMT+09:00 Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiexcel at gmail.com
>     <mailto:fumiexcel at gmail.com>>:
>
>         It's surprising that they are missing (forgive me, I'm not
>         here to make people grumpy).
>
>      
>
>
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>
>
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