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<p>I was hoping an apology could be accepted, and move on.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/04/17 18:13, Simon Peyton Jones
via Libraries wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Friends<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I second
what Tom says below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Almost
everyone expresses their views with respect, even when
disagreeing. The exceptions are (in my guess) mostly
unintentional, at least in the extent of the offence
caused. That does not make them unimportant, because a
slow slippage in our collective standards is, over time
corrosive. But it does mean that we can draw breath, as Tom
has helpfully done here, and without condemning anyone reset
our standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’ve been
talking to a couple of people about whether it would be
useful to have an explicit Haskell Community Code of
Conduct. Many online communities have one (e.g.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html">Rust</a>),
and it might be helpful for everyone to have a concrete
baseline rather than an unwritten standard. Any views on
that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> Libraries
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:libraries-bounces@haskell.org">mailto:libraries-bounces@haskell.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Murphy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 April 2017 19:18<br>
<b>To:</b> Fumiaki Kinoshita
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fumiexcel@gmail.com"><fumiexcel@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> libraries <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:libraries@haskell.org"><libraries@haskell.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Civility notes (was "Traversable
instances for (,,) a b")<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">Hi
Fumiaki!<o:p></o:p></p>
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I agree with you that some poorly-chosen words by
a few people have soured this conversation, but
please don't let that turn you completely off of
the productive conversation most of us are
attempting to have! I think it's largely been
successful, too: even if many of us haven't
changed our -1/+1 votes, I for one have had my
ideas challenged and have a more nuanced view than
before talking with everyone here.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Henning and Edward are two examples (one from each
side of the +1/-1 chasm) who have been aided by this
discussion, in making important progress to finding
a middle ground (each in the form of proposed
compiler changes).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
To the rest of us: Fumiaki regretting having posted
here is a pretty stark example of why speaking
politely matters. People being scared away and feeling
unwelcome is a real phenomenon, and we need to do our
part to fix it. I'd propose:<br>
<br>
- If you haven't read it already, SPJ recently
wrote a heartfelt letter on the subject [0]. We've
gotten better since then, but clearly we're not
finished.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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- Civility is a norm, and norms sometimes need to be
enforced. From a distance, we all look bad (and
unwelcoming!) if anyone is hostile and we don't make
it clear it's not acceptable. Speak up! That said,
everyone makes mistakes - try to give people space to
apologize and move on.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
- If someone says something insulting to you, please
take that as a sign to become more polite, not less
so. The downward spiral is real.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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If you're called out for saying something regrettable
(again, regardless of if you're +1 or -1 on this issue),
*please* take our desire for civil conversation
seriously. Responses like (I'm paraphrasing, and not
trying to cite anyone specifically): "It was a joke
(mostly)" and "It's your fault if you didn't get the
joke" are worse than not writing anything at all. Ideal
would be a quick "Sorry!"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">Thanks,
all!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">Tom<o:p></o:p></p>
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[0] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2016-September/024995.html">https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2016-September/024995.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">On
Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fumiaki Kinoshita <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fumiexcel@gmail.com" target="_blank">fumiexcel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">The
discussion has diverged to flaming due to a few
offensive people. I guess I shouldn't have posted
a proposal here, I should have submitted a patch
instead.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">2017-03-23
19:53 GMT+09:00 Fumiaki Kinoshita <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fumiexcel@gmail.com"
target="_blank">fumiexcel@gmail.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">It's
surprising that they are missing
(forgive me, I'm not here to make people
grumpy).<o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Libraries mailing list<br>
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href="http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries"
target="_blank">http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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