random library: Request for Carter Tazio Schonwald (@cartazio) to step down as maintainer with immediate effect

Alexey Kuleshevich alexey at kuleshevi.ch
Fri Jun 5 12:43:41 UTC 2020

I believe I was the person who initiated this whole thing therefore I feel responsible to make this conversation stop as well.

I totally understand what Carter is going through, my whole family lives in the US and I have many friends living in NY. I also understand that Carter has various issues, which he has shared with everyone over various channels.

Carter, I really do feel compassionate for you and do personally feel bad that you have to deal with all those problems. I truly hope that you can stay strong and be able to move forward despite them. That being said, I also hope you understand that this does not mean that other members of the community have to suffer because of it. If you can't do a job, it doesn't really matter why, what matters is that you should not stay in a way when someone is willing to step up and do it for you.

Many people came forward recognizing multiple issues with a way Carter maintained community projects over the years. This was brought to the attention of CLC and there was a decision made yesterday to replace Carter as maintainer of `random` and `vector` packages. Members of CLC contacted me together with others who participated in this initiative to improve `random`, namely Dominic Stenitz, Leonhard Markert, Alexey Khudyakov and myself, and we were asked to take over the maintainership of `random`. With regards to maintainership of `vector`, it was offered to Alexey Khudyakov and myself as well.

If I understand correctly Carter is still a member of CLC, and if so he still has the authority and responsibilities that any other member of the committee possess and he is welcome to continue to oversee our work on those packages, but any maintenance related questions please address to myself and other maintainers. I personally prefer to keep as much communication public for public projects, therefore feel free to get in touch me either on newly created gitter: https://gitter.im/haskell/vector or on the corresponding issue tracker for more technical discussions.

Alexey Kuleshevich

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, June 5, 2020 2:06 PM, Zemyla <zemyla at gmail.com> wrote:

> So you're saying that the fact that there's basically a civil war and pandemic going on is no excuse to respond to e-mails. And you're calling his behavior "tyrannous" when there are literal tyrants shooting tear gas at civilians.
> I gotta admit, this makes me disinclined to believe you're acting in good faith. Sometimes shit happens to good people, and someone who can't show a little compassion in these (pardon the cliche) unprecedented times is not someone I want anywhere involved in package management.
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, 02:18 Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiexcel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For example video call is not a great method for me because of the following reasons:
>> * I'm not a good English speaker (especially I sometimes have difficulty with colloquial American English)
>> * I live in a different timezone
>> * I prefer open communication
>> Although it's totally fine that you have a preference, I have no doubt that core library maintenance should have more acceptance and transparency.
>> I hesitated talking about this because issues might get locked/edited/deleted, and the participants might get accused of being "thick headed assholes" again like you did in https://github.com/haskell/vector/issues/267#issuecomment-579588727, but I must say:
>> Frankly, it feels extremely unfair that you ask us to focus on "technical matters" (which excludes maintenance for some reason) only, while you frequently use non-technical reasons (your diseases and the situation in New York) as an excuse. Your asthma doesn't rub me in the wrong way; your tyrannous behaviour does. With all due respect I suggest you not to use CLC privileges to cope with your personal stresses.
>> 2020年6月5日(金) 7:29 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com>:
>>> and more details to follow in a few days, i'm pretty fried, there was a police shooting this morning 1 block from my aparment plus a whole mess of stuff going on in lowermanhattan where i live most of the time this week thats got me on edge and stressed out of my gourd.
>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 6:24 PM Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> i've added a few folks at uploader/contributor bits, and this is generally something all core libraries need. i really prefer discussion via video call or voice chat or 1-1 neutral language..
>>>> yesterday i was pretty laid up with some pretty bad asthma etc and allergy drugs, and I'm sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way .
>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:50 AM Profpatsch <mail at profpatsch.de> wrote:
>>>>> chessai . <chessai1996 at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> Yes, please contact me about these concerns. I am reachable via email at
>>>>>> chessai1996 at gmail.com.
>>>>> Great, I’m looking forward to seeing this matter resolved swiftly.
>>>>> I am a fan of discussing community matters openly, but everybody can
>>>>> of course decide whether they want to speak up publicly or privately
>>>>> talk to a trustee.
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 12:24 PM David Feuer <david.feuer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I urge everyone to direct all further comments on this topic to the
>>>>>>> current chair of the CLC. There is nothing to be gained from public
>>>>>>> discussion of a "personnel" matter.
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 10:03 AM Profpatsch <mail at profpatsch.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I posted this comment on the thread of
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/haskell/random/pull/62#issuecomment-638088258
>>>>>>>> Since it was deleted and the comment thread locked by Carter,
>>>>>>>> I am escalating this request to the mailing list, where it cannot be
>>>>>>>> deleted.
>>>>>>>> Profpatsch <notifications at github.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> > @cartazio Please take even a fleeting look at
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/idontgetoutmuch/random/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed,
>>>>>>>> notice the amount of discussion and the timeline.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > This is the full-time work of a team of half a dozen of experts,
>>>>>>>> probably breaching one man-year of effort, easily.
>>>>>>>> > It cannot just be discarded out of hand.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I have been following the discussions (spread over mailinglists, issue
>>>>>>>> trackers and elsewhere), and I propose you hand over maintainership of
>>>>>>>> `random` as a base package.
>>>>>>>> A parallel issue with relevant discussion can be found at
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/haskell/random/pull/61
>>>>>>>> I am writing this email from my personal account, because I fear for
>>>>>>>> the health of the Haskell ecosystem, and I think Carter’s behaviour is
>>>>>>>> extremely detrimental to it.
>>>>>>>> I think a lot of other people feel the same way, so I encourage you to
>>>>>>>> add your voice publicly.
>>>>>>>> ~ Profpatsch
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