[Haskell-community] Request for comment: New haskell.org download page

[Simon Peyton Jones]

I like the way Mathieu sets things out here.   Facts, and the factual consequences of choices, are very helpful.  If they are clearly stated, order should be nigh irrelevant.

Simon

| -----Original Message-----
| From: Haskell-community [mailto:haskell-community-bounces at haskell.org] On
| Behalf Of Boespflug, Mathieu
| Sent: 24 September 2015 20:23
| To: John Wiegley
| Cc: haskell-community at haskell.org
| Subject: Re: [Haskell-community] Request for comment: New haskell.org
| download page
| 
| Hi John,
| 
| this is a nice summary of all options. May I suggest the following
| refinements to the summaries:
| 
| "
| There are three widely used ways to install the Haskell toolchain on
| supported platforms. Currently these are:
| 
| * Minimal installers: install just GHC (the compiler) in a global
| location on your system, using your system's package manager. (On
| Windows and OS X, also installs build tools.)
| * Stack: nothing is installed globally, except the stack command.
| Stack is a project-centric build tool that will automatically download
| and manage compiler and library versions locally on a project by
| project basis.
| * Haskell Platform: installs all of GHC (the compiler), cabal-install
| (a build tool),  misc tools and a starter set of libraries in a global
| location on your system.
| 
| If you opt for the minimal installer option for your platform, you'll
| likely still need to install one or more build tools (cabal-install or
| stack) separately.
| "
| 
| The important point is that these options only differ in what gets
| installed globally, as opposed to (semantically speaking)
| locally-within-your-project (stack, cabal-install+sandboxes) or
| locally-within-your-homedir (cabal-install sans sandboxes). There
| ought be a paragraph somewhere near the top discussing upfront the
| tradeoffs, which include:
| 
| * globally installed resources are conveniently and straightforwardly
| available to all users, and need only be downloaded once for all
| users. But,
| * globally installed resources are inflexible: it's hard to have
| multiple versions installed simultaneously, _because conflicts tend to
| arise_. This is particularly bad in the case of globally installed
| libraries.
| 
| I think this paragraph should specifically mention the problems
| related to HP as it stands today. That paragraph can be removed once
| the HP no longer installs libraries globally.
| 
| In my mind, it doesn't really matter what order things are in, from
| the moment that the main differentiators of each option are crisply
| and clearly defined. That said, the rationale behind the order above
| is:
| 
| * minimal first, because that's what people normally expect (get the
| compiler, no bells and whistles).
| * HP last, because unless you're a student and the instructor
| specifically told you to download the HP, chances are you're going to
| run into trouble with this option (will change in the future, at which
| point we'll just have HP + minimal anyways).
| 
| Any other order should work just as well.
| 
| 
| 
| On 24 September 2015 at 07:20, John Wiegley <johnw at newartisans.com> wrote:
| > As mentioned earlier, I've been working on a draft version of the new
| Haskell
| > download page in consultation with Simon PJ, Michael Snoyman, and
| Gershom
| > Bazerman. The goal has been twofold:
| >
| >   a) add stack as an explicit option, and
| >
| >   b) add text to each option indicating clearly what it provides and
| where to
| >      get further help, so users can understand the options and make an
| >      informed choice.
| >
| > We've sought to keep the text factual, rather than imply that one option
| is
| > "best" for any particular class of user, since opinions vary so widely
| on this
| > point.
| >
| > At the following link, you'll find a draft version of the new page for
| > comment:
| >
| >
| https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgist.gith
| ub.com%2fjwiegley%2f153d968ddfc9046ee4c9&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd
| .microsoft.com%7ce2b4f37764aa4da0fb2e08d2c5158d65%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d
| 7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=JdM8DNFObLLGfP6geYfw0rls7k%2fo5bScu4iwsyXi7jg%3d
| >
| > Hopefully it can go live on haskell.org next week, so please contribute
| your
| > edits here, or by pull request. The goal is to explain each option so
| that
| > people can make an informed decision.
| >
| > However, the order of presentation does imply that whatever comes first
| is
| > "preferred" even if that is not the intent. The order currently given is
| HP,
| > Stack, Minimal. Chris has already made a few points about changing this
| order,
| > so let's continue that discussion and see where it leads us.
| >
| > Bear in mind that this is (hopefully) only an interim state. The plan is
| to
| > add Stack to the Platform, and render the Platform minimal, which will
| > consolidate this page down to a single, recommended download path.
| >
| > At the bottom of the gist are incomplete sections on third party
| libraries and
| > alternate installation approaches. These have yet to be written. The
| hope is
| > to resolve the top content first and sort the rest out after; however,
| ideas
| > for that content is most welcome too.
| >
| > Thank you,
| >   John Wiegley
| > _______________________________________________
| > Haskell-community mailing list
| > Haskell-community at haskell.org
| >
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