[Haskell-cafe] Fw: patch applied (ghc): Remove the OpenGLfamilyof libraries fromextralibs

Tue Jul 29 15:41:00 EDT 2008

> Scott, I couldn't have said it better. My impression has always been
> that HOpenGL looks like OpenGL would have looked like if they'd had a
> flexible language to work with when they desgned it.  My only quibble
> would be with the documentation.  Is there any way out there for
> haddock to produce a linked and indexed PDF, so that I can better
> guess where one function will be relative to another that feels like
> it ought to be related?

It is probably a bit obscured in the alphabetically sorted Haddock
main contents listing, but if you look at something like

http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/OpenGL/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL.html
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/GLUT/Graphics-UI-GLUT.html

you'll find that the layout closely follows the relevant specs (at least,
it used to). So you can use the PDF files for the official specs to find what
you need, and then those doc layout pages to translate to HOpenGL.

Just as the examples follow the red book, to make translation easy.

Do I need to mention that I agree with Scott?-)
Claus

> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:42 PM, scodil <sedillard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'll chime in with a "me too". I use Haskell and OpenGL for prototyping
>> scientific visualization software, 3D models and such. Not that I think it
>> couldn't be used for production software, its just that I just don't produce
>> much :)
>>
>> The library really is fantastic. I don't think it gets enough fanfare. The
>> only
>> other GL API that rivals it is the C API itself. Most other languages
>> provide a
>> shoddy & incomplete interface to that, instead of an idiomatic
>> interpretation of the OpenGL spec. I can't think of a single language, not
>> even
>> python, whose OpenGL bindings come close.
>>
>> I get the impression (from a inadequate sample of irc logs and list chatter)
>> that many Haskellers see HOpenGL as 'just an OpenGL binding', like it was
>> readline or curses or something. It just plugs a hole in the Haskell/OS
>> interface, and its worth is merely a function of the size and importance of
>> that hole. Instead I advocate, as Claus and others have done, that it's a
>> shining example of how to write a Haskell interface to a well known API.
>>
>> If you never used C OpenGL and learned GL using Haskell, you might not
>> notice
>> anything special about it. But that's kind of my point, its just so damn
>> good
>> it blends into the background. The only people who notice this, I think, are
>> experienced C OpenGL programmers, and the overlap between them and the
>> Haskell
>> community in general is small I bet. Their voice in that community smaller
>> still.
>>
>> This probably has little bearing on the issue of whether to keep or drop
>> HOpenGL in the near future, but I think that if 'the community' (or whoever
>> has
>> a say in these things) like the style of HOpenGL, and want to encourage
>> bindings to be written in that style, they should place the library
>> prominently
>> in the pantheon of Haskell libs. Demoting it has the opposite effect.
>>
>> Anyway, I just wanted to take advantage of a rare opportunity to sing its
>> praise.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>> Yes, same here; don't worry, it's not going away.   It would be nice
>>> to know, though, how many people are using it and what they're using
>>> it for.  I'm using it for information visualization, and slowly
>>> evolving/cribbing together something like the Processing
>>> (http://www.processing.org) framework for Haskell as I do more things.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Alberto Ruiz <aruiz at um.es> wrote:
>>>> Don Stewart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> claus.reinke:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But neither do I believe the rumour that OpenGL isn't much
>>>>>> used, and forwarding the removal notice gives those users the
>>>>>> opportunity to speak up now if they prefer no gaps in OpenGL presence,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> forever to hold their peace, as they say.
>>>>>
>>>>> I for one have noticed this library *is* actively used. Many of the fun
>>>>> new games that have appeared are using it, in particular.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such as:
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/frag
>>>>>    http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Monadius
>>>>>
>>>>> http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/roguestar-gl
>>>>>    http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/rsagl
>>>>>    http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Shu-thing
>>>>>    http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/topkata
>>>>>
>>>>> The tutorial was also translated to the wiki last week,
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Opengl
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a good, reliable package, in active use, widely ported.
>>>>
>>>> I'd just like to say that HOpenGL is essential for me. It is one of the
>>>> reasons why I finally decided to use Haskell for all my work...
>>>>
>>>> Alberto
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> I try to take things like a crow; war and chaos don't always ruin a
>>> picnic, they just mean you have to be careful what you swallow.
>>>
>>> -- Jessica Edwards
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> I try to take things like a crow; war and chaos don't always ruin a
> picnic, they just mean you have to be careful what you swallow.
>
> -- Jessica Edwards
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