[web-devel] On moving Yesod-specific discussion to a separate list

David Pollak feeder.of.the.bears at gmail.com
Tue Jun 28 19:20:57 CEST 2011

Greg & Co.,

FWIW... In the Lift community, we've got a single mailing list for
everything Lift-related (Lift is a web framework, but it's also an Actor
library, a JSON library and a whole lot of other things.)  We do all of our
design on the main mailing list and have > 1,500 messages a month.  In
general, it works out very, very well.  We don't answer on Stack Overflow or
the other answer sites (e.g., Quora) but focus all of our communications on
the Lift mailing list.  In this way, the long term lurkers have the design
discussions, questions, etc. sink into their brains.

I make no assessment about this mailing list for Yesod vs. a Yesod specific
list (although I will follow Yesod where it goes.)  But I do suggest
strongly that keeping all discussions in a central place works very well,
even for a medium-high volume list.



On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Greg Weber <greg at gregweber.info> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Chris Smith <cdsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 07:05 -0700, Greg Weber wrote:
>> > To summarize this thread, many subscribers would like this mail list
>> > to have a "higher signal to noise ratio". One aspect of this is *very*
>> > Yesod specific development discussions.
>> With emphasis on the "very specific", yes.  It's great to have a place
>> where general web development topics can be discussed, and those will
>> obviously involve specific frameworks at some times.  I'm not sure
>> there's a rule we can make here that will make any sense; it really
>> comes down to people taking a minute to consider whether they are
>> talking about anything that makes sense outside of that very specific
>> context; and if so, then great!
>> It's up to individuals on the list to: (a) make that decision, and (b)
>> make sure the list is always presented as a general discussion forum for
>> web development in Haskell, and not as a project-specific forum.
>> I think what all this comes down to is that web frameworks (and Yesod on
>> particular -- I'm not saying that as a bad thing, there's just a lot
>> MORE stuff in it) are at least an order of magnitude more complex than
>> most Haskell libraries.  That's why I can read a random thread on
>> haskell-cafe and understand what it's saying, but my chances of even
>> comprehending a random thread here are really rather low.  And I don't
>> think it's my intelligence or lack of general web development knowledge
>> at fault there; just the nature of the stuff we're talking about.
> I would much rather revisit this issue in a month or so than keep this
> thread alive, but I feel the need to defend the good name of Yesod. Yesod
> libraries are no more complex than other Haskell libraries. You could say
> that if you add them all up together that creates complexity, but most
> questions on web-devel are about one specific library, and perhaps how it is
> interacted with from Yesod.
> The issue is simply that a Yesod thread assumes you have developed a web
> application in Yesod. Or if it is about implementation, it may assume you
> have looked at a library's internals. As you said, it isn't about your lack
> of *general* web development knowledge. It is a lack of Yesod *specific*
> knowledge.
> On haskell-cafe users normally do a better job of presenting their problem
> without assuming you already have very specific knowledge. This is something
> we can do better at on web-devel.
>  Greg Weber
>> --
>> Chris Smith
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Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
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