Re: Ann: let’s create better norms for ensuring all important libraries have several active maintainers

[Carter Schonwald]

Thank you.

I genuinely hope that folks take these points spj highlights are something
everyone can take to heart.  More ideas, from very different people,
working together As peers , is table stakes for creating as welcoming a
community and Ever improving tools. For Fun! ;)

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:07 PM Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
wrote:

> Carter,
>
>
> I’d like to salute you for a very gracious and balanced email below, after
> a difficult week.    It has already led to  some equally gracious
> responses.  This is how we move forward together, in a positive spiral,
> instead of a negative one.  Thank you for leading us on this.
>
> In terms of what i like and appreciate about this community, I would like
> to challenge us all to think about how we can turn frustration into
> concrete and positively actionable feedback that supports each other in a
> good faith positive way. I feel that we all failed collectively, and that’s
> fine, but i hope we can learn to engage in this differently.
>
> perhaps most importantly, i think its GENUINELY important to strive to
> support and enable every project to have a genuinely diverse maintainer set
> for all of our important libraries, both in terms of age, creed and
> whatever. Haskell has failed to do a good job of that in the past, and i
> challenge us all to work to address that starting with our core going
> forward
>
> I agree very much with both of these thoughts.  Asynchronous
> communication, through email and bug trackers, is a deeply fragile medium
> and can easily spiral into a bad place.    But with humility and grace we
> can recover, and perhaps go forward in genuine and respectful partnership.
>
> Your suggestion of multiple (and diverse) maintainers for every important
> library is an excellent one. Any single maintainer can be unavoidable
> absent; cannot (by definition) reflect a diverse range of judgements; and
> (because important libraries are, well, important) can feel pressurised.
> Diversity is strength here.
>
> Thank you for the many contributions you have made and continue to make.
> And get well!
>
> Simon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Libraries <libraries-bounces at haskell.org> *On Behalf Of *Carter
> Schonwald
> *Sent:* 05 June 2020 16:55
> *To:* Mathieu Boespflug <m at tweag.io>
> *Cc:* Haskell Libraries <libraries at haskell.org>
> *Subject:* Ann: let’s create better norms for ensuring all important
> libraries have several active maintainers
>
>
>
> I’m very happy that we now agree to have several active comaintainers for
> all core/systematically .  (though the specifics of how it was done this
> week i view as anthetical to what our community represents and values.)
>
>
>
> There’s ways of doing that can be done in a good faith way.  I’m
> definitely not perfect.  I also have spent much of the past five years
> trying to learn to manage my somewhat aggressive and personal flavor of
> generalized anxiety disorder (certain flavors of anxiety or depression in
> men present as aggressive behavior ).  Some of my approaches on tickets
> that people find frustrating are my attempt to avoid getting fixated on
> getting into Interpersonal conflicts rather than trying to shut those
> voices down. Also I find it hard to have those dialogues in that
> communication format.
>
>
>
> For asynchronous conversations in different time zones I fully welcome
> discord or what’s app or signal or freenode irc.  Conversations with
> emotional dimensions are challenging in email.  Let alone with issue
> trackers!
>
>
>
> In the past month I was working with Simon Jakobi and Andrew lelechenko as
> a sort of pilot for a new Haskell action team (HAT) with them as the
> initial leadership for 2020, to have some folks we all recognize to have
> excellent taste and engineering to help support and triage all maintainers
> and efforts. We spent a bit of time helping out on bytestring and I think
> that was a success. and I hoping they and other members of  HAT can make a
> big difference across all the important libraries we have. I look forward
> to support HAT via my role as CLC.
>
>
>
> More broadly, I was also privately in discussion with some folks before
> this week's tornado about how to move to make it the norm for all core /
> important libraries have 3-5 variously active and diversely different
> comaintainers. What happened this week is not how id have liked it to be
> rolled out, and I’m in the best of head spaces at the moment, but I think
> it is VERY good that we collectively agree there should be a norm of
> actively making sure there are several diverse co maintainers for every
> such library.
>
>
>
> how it was handled this week is not how it should have been handled, i
> pray that no one ever views this as grounds for similar treatment of people
> inour community who have been trying to be in their own way, good
> caretakers of important community resources
>
>
>
> In terms of what i like and appreciate about this community, I would like
> to challenge us all to think about how we can turn frustration into
> concrete and positively actionable feedback that supports each other in a
> good faith positive way. I feel that we all failed colectively, and thats
> fine, but i hope we can learn to engage in this differently.
>
>
>
> perhaps most importantly, i think its GENUINELY important to strive to
> support and enable every project to have a genuinely diverse maintainer set
> for all of our important libraries, both in terms of age, creed and
> whatever. Haskell has failed to do a good job of that in the past, and i
> challenge us all to work to address that starting with our core going
> forward
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 8:32 AM Mathieu Boespflug <m at tweag.io> wrote:
>
> Zemyla,
>
>
>
> I would expect more charitable reception of anything said by anyone, but
> especially when the original author stated clearly in the very same message
> that they are not a native English speaker. And even if the words are to be
> taken on face value, do note that no one has called anyone a tyrant.
> Calling out specific behaviour (that predates the current pandemic) as
> "tyrannous" (or "tyrannical") and naming someone a tyrant is simply not the
> same thing.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 13:06:20, Zemyla <zemyla at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So you're saying that the fact that there's basically a civil war and
> pandemic going on is no excuse to respond to e-mails. And you're calling
> his behavior "tyrannous" when there are literal tyrants shooting tear gas
> at civilians.
>
>
>
> I gotta admit, this makes me disinclined to believe you're acting in good
> faith. Sometimes shit happens to good people, and someone who can't show a
> little compassion in these (pardon the cliche) unprecedented times is not
> someone I want anywhere involved in package management.
>
>
>
>
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