[Haskell] Re: [Haskell-cafe] PROPOSAL: Rename haskell@ to haskell-announce@

[Claus Reinke]

[cc-ed to haskell@, as this discussion is about haskell@]

> There are four things sent to the haskell list@
> 
> 1) Calls for papers
> 2) Annoucements
> 3) Oleg's stuff (which are really announcements of a library or technique)
> 4) Off topic stuff
> 
> I'm initially only proposing to mop up category 4, which I am pretty
> sure the haskell@ people don't want to see.

i still keep all haskell[-cafe] email in one folder, and tend to reply
on the list a post comes from;-) but iirc, those who proposed the
split were not looking for a pure announcement list:

(*) the idea was to have a low-traffic window into all haskell
      developments of wider interests, while also establishing a
      free-form forum for general discussion/newbie questions.

so everything that would be of interest to all haskellers,
including those too busy to follow haskell-cafe, would 
go to haskell, everything else would go to haskell-cafe.
but even those topics starting out on haskell are meant
to migrate to haskell-cafe after a few posts at most.

in other words, people were meant to subscribe either
to haskell or to haskell+haskell-cafe, and posting to 
haskell was meant to be a flag able to raise a topic
briefly over the general din in haskell-cafe.

see also the welcome messages:

    http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
    http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

(note that the second is slightly misleading: *everything*
is off-topic on haskell@ after a few exchanges, i think;
note also that crossposting was explicitly ruled out)

> I did wonder whether this discussion should take place 
> on the haskell@ list or the haskell-cafe@ one - the great 
> ambiguity of the lists.

this discussion should have started out on haskell at .
and since it is entirely about changing haskell@, it
probably should have stayed there as well. it is not
very helpful to discuss changes to a specific list on
another list!-)

however, it has become a problem, and i don't know
whether everyone on haskell-cafe is really subscribed
to haskell as well anymore. so posting announcements
only to haskell might miss the majority of haskeller on
cafe, the crossposting some have started to resort to
is expressly discourage in the haskell-cafe 'charta', 
newcomers don't know where to post or where to 
subscribe, threads sometimes linger on haskell@ 
instead of migrating to haskell-cafe, etc.

as i indicated, i wasn't a fan of the split, but it had its
merits: the free discussion on haskell-cafe is nice, and
the intention of haskell@ as a highlights channel for 
busy haskellers was understandable, even if it doesn't
seem to work any more.

if my interpretation of the split intentions (*) is accurate,
my proposal to alleviate the current confusion would be:

- do not assume everyone is on haskell@ as well
- do not prohibit cross-postings anymore, but give
    clear instructions about when to use them
- for most haskellers, haskell-cafe has become the
    main channel, so do not post only to haskell@
- for most specific discussions, there are specific lists,
    so there seems little need for haskell@ as a general
    discussion forum

=> all posts meant for either haskell or haskell-cafe
    go to haskell-cafe
=> threads that are likely to be of interest to everyone
    on both lists may be highlighted on haskell@, either
    by crossposting the first (and only the first) email in 
    the thread, or by posting a brief discussion 
    announcement/summary to haskell@

that way, there'd be no confusion about where to post
(always haskell-cafe), or whether to crosspost (permitted, 
but only for thread starters) and no limitation to 
formal announcements and cfps only (whenever something
of wider interest starts on -cafe, interesting techniques or 
discussions, or events, or announcements, also send a 
brief invitation to haskell@).

and busy haskellers can see on haskell@ whenever 
there is a thread on haskell-cafe that they might want
to read/join. 

does this sound workable?
claus