duncan.coutts at googlemail.com
Sat Oct 10 10:38:32 EDT 2009
On Sat, 2009-10-10 at 02:51 -0700, oleg at okmij.org wrote:
> > The reason it's hard is that to demonstrate a difference you have to get
> > the lazy I/O to commute with some other I/O, and GHC will never do that.
> The keyword here is GHC. I may well believe that GHC is able to divine
> programmer's true intent and so it always does the right thing. But
> writing in the language standard ``do what the version x.y.z of GHC
> does'' does not seem very appropriate, or helpful to other
With access to unsafeInterleaveIO it's fairly straightforward to show
that it is non-deterministic. These programs that bypass the safety
mechanisms on hGetContents just get us back to having access to the
non-deterministic semantics of unsafeInterleaveIO.
> > Haskell's IO library is carefully designed to not run into this
> > problem on its own. It's normally not possible to get two Handles
> > with the same FD...
> Is this behavior is specified somewhere, or is this just an artifact
> of a particular GHC implementation?
It is in the Haskell 98 report, in the design of the IO library. It does
not not mention FDs of course. The IO/Handle functions it provides give
no (portable) way to obtain two read handles on the same OS file
descriptor. The hGetContents behaviour of semi-closing is to stop you
from getting two lazy lists of the same read Handle.
There's nothing semantically wrong with you bypassing those restrictions
(eg openFile "/dev/fd/0") it just means you end up with a
non-deterministic IO program, which is something we typically try to
I am a bit perplexed by this whole discussion. It seems to come down to
saying that unsafeInterleaveIO is non-deterministic and that things
implemented on top are also non-deterministic. The standard IO library
puts up some barriers to restrict the non-determinism, but if you walk
around the barrier then you can still find it. It's not clear to me what
is supposed to be surprising or alarming here.
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