[Haskell-community] Next Steps in Downloads Page Discussion

[Gershom B]

Hi all.

Let me try to sum up the state of the discussion and propose next
steps -- please feel free to disagree with my summary if you are so
inclined. I'm trying to capture the current state and help move
discussion, so if people feel this doesn't capture it, its good to
know sooner rather than later.

== Key Points ==

* We distinguish between "download method / installer" and "getting
started". We add a new page "Getting Started" with links at the top
level just like "Downloads / Community / Documentation / News".

* The Downloads page points to the minimal platform installer (however
named) that includes GHC, stack, cabal-install, and a few other
binaries (but no extra global libraries). Below that we can have links
to other mechanisms as well, but the minimal platform is the clearly
distinguished recommended way.

* The "Getting Started" page proceeds to describe next steps for new
users to get up and running right away after installing the minimal
platform. Since many people have made the case that for someone who
hits the page without some prior guide, a stack workflow is the
easiest to get running on and best documented at this time, I imagine
this workflow will be stack-oriented.

== Additional Considerations ==

* People have pointed to some issues in the windows platform
installer. We are going to work to resolve these. A patch for one
(which improves stack behavior when it can find ghc but not msys) is
already submitted. Sorting out the other (which pertains to enterprise
installs, not single-user installs) is underway.

* As in the past, we shouldn't focus our discussions on what the
answer is "for all time" -- tech will change, things will evolve. We
should think of this as something that does the job reasonably well
for say the next six months, give or take.

== Next Steps ==

* There is a mock-up of a new download page already on github (Thanks
so much Jacco!):

https://github.com/haskell-infra/hl/issues/176

Under its "getting started" I would propose something like:

1. Download and run the Haskell Toolchain installer
2. Follow the _getting_started_guide_ to start running some code!

with the latter linking to the new getting started page. I hope this
is acceptable to people? Maybe some other bullet points should be
there too...

* I would like to solicit a kind volunteer or two to draft up what
they think a "getting started guide" should look like so we can spawn
a separate discussion on that. Given that we've decoupled this guide
from the download page, it can afford, I think, to have a bit more
text than just how to compile and run "hello world"...

== a few other thoughts ==

We've had a productive discussion on this list, I think. But as many
probably know, not all the discussions over this have been so
positive. I just want to make a general point that has been nagging at
me, and apologies for the sappiness that follows. While there is some
commercial support, Haskell is an open-source language and community
at heart that historically has and currently still relies on people
volunteering their time. Be it in writing code, writing documentation,
teaching others, and especially in working on tooling and
infrastructure. (This goes all the way up to GHC which also runs on
donated time and effort in many ways).

Being run on volunteer steam is great in many ways. But it has one
important caveat. People have to want to volunteer, because they enjoy
the technical challenges, but especially because they want to help
others, and because they find it rewarding to contribute to things
which bring joy and benefit to others.

All of us, working on installers, working on fundraising efforts,
working on documentation, working on compilers and libraries, or
trying to sort out weird issues with mailservers and proxying content
delivery networks or php bugs impacting wikis or google-analytics
tokens or whatever else, we're all here not because we have to be, but
because we want to be. And that's great! But it is also precarious and
fragile, because if it becomes not fun, or not rewarding, or we feel
that what we do is being disparaged and attacked (and this goes for
everyone, i think, on all sides of recent discussions) or diminished,
then we change our calculus, and we stop wanting to participate, and
stop wanting to fix things for others. And that's understandable.

So, if we let our discussions or language play out in a way that can
hurt others, can make them feel that their work is no good, or not
appreciated, then they have no reason to want to help anymore. And
they won't. And I can't blame them. And if we all start to hurt one
another too much, it will become no fun for any of us, and then the
whole endeavor falls apart.

So I want to extend my gratitude and thanks to everyone working on any
element of our open-source tooling and infrastructure, or even lending
a voice to give insight into how to improve it. And I also want to ask
us all to remember this in our interactions with one another, and to
remember that people will say things we find unbelievably wrong at
times, and discussions may stall at times, and things may get stuck
for longer than we'd like. And we have every right to get frustrated
when that happens. But we can't let our frustrations at difficult
_situations_ turn into words that diminish other _people_, other
potential collaborators, others also freely giving of their time
trying to improve and help others, whatever our disagreements.

I have more to say, but I'm not sure how, and this is long and
inarticulate enough. Anyway, onto the next steps (I hope), and please
everyone consider stepping forward to help with this stuff, in
drafting language, or helping with design and implementation of the
actual changes to the site (on which more volunteers welcome -- please
email me!), etc. (By the way I want to put out more calls for help on
more concrete infra stuff soon, not at all web related -- but in the
immediate future, if you have experience running a mail server and
dealing with the many painful hassles therein, and are willing to help
a bit, please contact me soon).

Best,
Gershom