[Haskell-community] haskell.org download page

[Nicolas Wu]

Hi Paolo,

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 1:53 PM Paolo Giarrusso <p.giarrusso at gmail.com>
wrote:

> > The decision about how to manage projects and their dependencies should
> be
> > open and isn't for beginners, whether that be using stack or cabal: both
> > have their merits, and I don't want to push one over the other.
>
> I'm honestly confused what you're arguing. You say this decision isn't
> for beginners, yet you propose offering the HP. So how should a
> beginner install a package without first deciding whether to use
> cabal-install or stack? Or can a beginner meaningfully be expected to
> learn using both alternatives?
>

Sorry for not being clear, my bad. Hopefully I can clarify and elaborate a
bit more.

I think a beginner doesn't usually make the choice of how to use
GHC/stack/cabal by themselves; they are usually being instructed by someone
(or a resource) that has decided that for them. On that front I don't think
there's a singular best way to approach this; there's diversity in the way
people approach teaching and that's fine and healthy, there's also
diversity in the way people learn and the goals they have with the language
and that's fine and healthy too. We should be supporting people who want to
learn the language as well as people who want to contribute to teaching. We
should respect diversity in those roles; if someone wants their students to
use only stack then by all means they can do so, that shouldn't stop others
from using ghc or ghci directly.

For instance, if a beginner is just trying to run small examples they see
on a blog, then maybe all they need is a call to ghci. If they're learning
about making a simple binary they might want ghc. If they want to have a
whole managed project, perhaps they're after either stack or cabal. The
point is that they're usually guided by something, and those guides do
differ on what they prefer and recommend. The default download should
easily support these different modes of learning and teaching.


> Also, do both tools have their merits *for beginners*? We're talking
> of cabal as-is, not of the ongoing work on new-build.
>

I'm talking about having a default that bundles tools like ghc, cabal, and
stack, since these are the main tools our community has for compiling and
executing Haskell code. I don't want to force people into one of
these--whether that be students or educators. In all cases the default
download recommendation should support all of these since they are the
mainstream tools we use. To avoid confusion I think there should be only
one recommended option on the main download page (and here the HP minimal
seems to satisfy this, and stack seems to preclude this). The download page
should also have a link to other resources (such as the HP Full, stack
only, and other distributions like Haskell for Mac) on another page.

Since there seems to be confusion about how the committee comes to a
consensus I should note that at this point I'm only speaking for myself
here. This is just my recommendation, and I'm open and willing to listen to
other views before considering what I think is best. I am not usually
overtly vocal in these discussions, but I do read what is said and form my
own opinions.

Best wishes,

Nick
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