[Haskell-cafe] Missing messages in the ML
ky3 at atamo.com
Mon Nov 22 07:18:23 UTC 2021
Perhaps not gremlins in the ether but the reply button that folks hit on
their web mail doesn’t include the mailing list. Hence, it wasn’t reflected
Subsequently, someone in the convo noticed the absence and included haskell
cafe back in. Then we see the missing messages as quoted replies.
How to fix this? Two possible approaches:
1. Remind folks to Reply to All.
2. Change the mailing list settings so that webmail reply goes to the list
by default. Privatizing the convo—previously the default—is still doable.
The haskell beginners list took this decision years ago.
I believe option 2 has been suggested previously.
This is a consequence of most folks migrating to webmail from unix mail
clients that were a bit smarter in being able to recognize unix-driven
mailing lists. (At least that’s my guess how we got here.)
On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 1:42 PM Bryan Richter <b at chreekat.net> wrote:
> The *only* messages I've seen on this thread are from MigMit. I guess at
> least two other people have posted, but I don't see them. Not in spam,
> either. Hmm
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021, 0.34 MigMit, <migmit at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No, non-UTC logs are a nightmare when you have developers living in
>> different time zones. Or even in one that is different from the one where
>> the logs come from. Not only does it still have the same overhead, but it
>> also adds DST troubles to the mix (yes, DST does not start at the same time
>> everywhere) and is generally MORE confusing than just having everything in
>> Also, editors might be fast... but only if you don't have too much logs.
>> I did work on one project where daily logs took tens of gigabytes in gzip.
>> Editors were out of question, trying to load this in Emacs would just hang
>> it. Things like zgrep were pretty much the only thing that could work.
>> Another project simply used Datadog, and was way easier to work with,
>> despite it being a web interface.
>> There could be some specific cases where logging in a local time zone is
>> a good idea, but I don't think that happens often enough.
>> > On 21 Nov 2021, at 22:47, Joachim Durchholz <jo at durchholz.org> wrote:
>> > Am 21.11.21 um 19:18 schrieb Tom Ellis:
>> >> It sounds really unwise to log timestamps in anything in other than
>> >> UTC. If you want to see the logged times in your local timezone then
>> >> why not apply that conversion when you read the log?
>> > UTC is wise only if you really have to deal with data originating from
>> multiple timezones.
>> > Otherwise, it's just an additional interpretation step that makes it
>> harder to read the raw logs - which not a very rare use case actually,
>> editors are still the fastest way to find specific log records after all
>> (mostly because you don't have to learn the web interface du jour just to
>> search for something).
>> > E.g. the application I'm working with logs to text files, and it always
>> runs in the same time zone.
>> > UTC is just an extra hoop to jump through, with no added benefit.
>> > (Some users do live in a separate time zone, but we rarely need to
>> correlate user-side and server-side logs, we go by session ids anyway.)
>> > Regards,
>> > Jo
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