[Haskell-cafe] Looking for a paper [Dijkstra-Dot]

amindfv at gmail.com amindfv at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 20:19:08 UTC 2020

Sincere apologies if my message came across as me, personally, criticizing you(r actions), personally. Enforced 100% politeness isn't actually good for a community, and I have no special claim to an objective viewpoint on which messages are hurtful vs. harmful. Plus, I'm sure emails I've sent on this list have failed the test I'm describing now.

On the other hand, almost certainly most people subscribed to the mailing list haven't read every email on the list, and even a message that's "justified frustration" in context can seem like a community full of jerks to people who don't have that full context. People (real people I've spoken to offline) worry their questions will be attacked or ridiculed, and so don't ask them and stay disengaged.

Not the problem of one email or one author. And I certainly don't want to have to implicitly endorse (or not) whatever messages came before. The existence of other (imo) rude messages on the list underscores my point, not detracts from it. We should all try to make this place be and seem friendly.


> El 8 jun 2020, a las 11:49, Ben Franksen <ben.franksen at online.de> escribió:
>> Am 08.06.20 um 16:07 schrieb amindfv at gmail.com:
>> Haskell's reputation as a welcoming community is on shakier ground 
>> than it was a few years ago, and phrases like "despite your endless 
>> ranting" work against the collegial atmosphere we're proud of.
> To put this in perspective, here are a few citations from what I have
> called "endless ranting":
>> ... misapplying ... in a rather badly-informed way.
>> ... it doesn't seem to know Haskellers very well; nor Dijkstra's 
>> well-known support for Haskell in education.
>> ... can't even spell his first name right... 
>> ... it's a couple of dudes shooting the breeze.
>> ...To put it bluntly: the authors are blundering.
>> ... a bogus problem; direct consequence of the authors not 
>> understanding EWD1300.
> Do you regard this as "welcoming" language? If not, where was your
> concerned reply when they hit the list?
> IMO the occasional ranting doesn't hurt anybody as long as it is
> addressed not to people but to technical shortcomings. However, the
> above citations are clearly ad-hominem attacks.
> Or is your point that I directly addressed the author of the above
> lines, rather than attacking some third party?
> Cheers
> Ben
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