[Haskell-cafe] Best Actor system?

[james]

On 27/03/2014 17:28, Christopher Allen wrote:
> I don't actually want to get drawn into this, but one point would be 
> that it's really just the same fallacies as OOP in general, but 
> concurrent.

Well, horses for courses, I've been writing distributed C++ apps since 
cfront was shiny and new.

I find writing off OOP as distasteful as writing off functional, and 
there are people in both camps.

I have ordered Simon's book and will take care to read it.

In the mean time - does anyone have an answer to the question I asked?

James

> The idea that isolation behind an interface (message passing or not) 
> is going to prevent unnecessary mutation or side effects from getting 
> out of control.
>
> In practice, it doesn't do that at all and the fact that you're making 
> your inter-dependencies more implicit, rather than explicit, through 
> the use of isolated buckets of side-effecting state and mutation is 
> going to make it harder rather than easier to debug the program when 
> it invariably breaks. I'd rather get a call-stack if I'm going to 
> abandon Haskell-y goodness. And your Actors *will* get into a bad 
> state, so you'll end up writing Inspector and Debugger mixins just to 
> keep a handle on the complexity when they get into that bad state.
>
> It's not impossible for Actors to make sense. I used agents (which are 
> not full-blown Actors per se) in Clojure for side-effect isolation, 
> serialization, and thread safety to good effect, but I kept how much 
> "work" they did to a bare minimum and tried to keep everything in pure 
> functions as long as I could.
>
> It's just that I see programmers with a shiny new hammer looking for 
> every nail they can find.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Zongheng Yang <zongheng.y at gmail.com 
> <mailto:zongheng.y at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Can anyone give some detailed cons of Akka / actor model?
>
>     On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Alois Cochard
>     <alois.cochard at gmail.com <mailto:alois.cochard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > I have good experience with actors (Scala/Akka), and I can tell
>     you that you
>     > should avoid them as much as possible.
>     > I think the model is good if you need to do some low level
>     concurrency
>     > coding on a language that don't have effect tracking in types.
>     >
>     > Having used the Async library from Marlow, I highly recommend
>     it... and it
>     > probably cover a big percentage of traditional concurrency use
>     cases.
>     >
>     > You still have Haskell Cloud if you want distributed messaging.
>     >
>     > Cheers
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 27 March 2014 06:29, james <james at mansionfamily.plus.com
>     <mailto:james at mansionfamily.plus.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Having been introduced to actors by looking at Erlang, I
>     discovered Akka.
>     >>
>     >> It seems that the performance is pretty impressive and I like
>     the model.
>     >>
>     >> There seem to be several basic Actor libraries in Hackage, but
>     they don't
>     >> seem
>     >> to be very actively developed.
>     >>
>     >> I'm more interested in the model for programming within a
>     single runtime
>     >> than I am for distributed systems, but message and dispatch
>     performance
>     >> definitely is important.
>     >>
>     >> Can anyone share experiences with the different packages?  Is
>     any one
>     >> of them stand-out?
>     >>
>     >> Thanks
>     >> James
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>     >> Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org <mailto:Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org>
>     >> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Alois Cochard
>     > http://aloiscochard.blogspot.com
>     > http://twitter.com/aloiscochard
>     > http://github.com/aloiscochard
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>     > Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org <mailto:Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org>
>     > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>     Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org <mailto:Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org>
>     http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/attachments/20140327/c56e9cb9/attachment-0001.html>