[Haskell-cafe] Applicative is like an Arrow

damodar kulkarni kdamodar2000 at gmail.com
Sat Aug 17 06:06:37 CEST 2013

Thanks for this nice analogy and explanation. This brings "monad
transformers" to my mind.
"without" monad transformers, the monads are bit crippled in their
applicability (please correct me if I am wrong)
"with" monad transformers the code becomes to some extent ugly (again,
please correct me if I am wrong)

I wonder, where and how the Monad transformers fit in here?

Thanks and regards,
-Damodar Kulkarni

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Mathijs Kwik <mathijs at bluescreen303.nl>wrote:

> Thiago Negri <evohunz at gmail.com> writes:
> > I just stumbled upon the Applicative term.
> > Arrows are quite difficult for me to understand at the moment.
> > I guess it needs time to digest.
> >
> > But, as I understand so far, Applicative and Arrows looks like the same
> > thing.
> >
> > Please, enlight me.
> I would like to point out this paper:
> http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/slindley/papers/idioms-arrows-monads.pdf
> In short: arrows are a bit more powerful than idioms (applicative) but a
> bit less than monads. However, power sometimes comes at a price.
> All 3 have to do with combining / sequencing effects, but they differ in
> subtle but important ways. Every idiom is an arrow and every arrow is a
> monad, but not the other way around.
> I will first give an overview of the differences, then try to explain
> what I mean... (my terminology might be a bit awkward/wrong)
> Idiom:
> Basic combining strategy: i (a -> b) -> i a -> i b
> Sequencing: effects are applied in sequence
>             values (stuff "inside") are isolated
> Shape depends on values: no
> Arrow:
> Basic combining strategy: a b c -> a c d -> a b d
> Sequencing: effects are applied in sequence
>             values are sequenced too
>             values can "see" upstream results
> Shape depends on values: static choices only
> Monad:
> Basic combining strategy: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
> Sequencing: effects are applied in sequence
>             values are sequenced too
>             values can "see" upstream results
> Shape depends on values: yes, fully dynamic
> Now, what do I mean by all this?
> Basically these 3 abstractions consist of 3 things:
> - effects
> - values
> - shape
> Effects can be things like "carries state around"(State), "can
> fail"(Maybe), "multiple answers"(List) and more. Values are the pure
> stuff "inside", and what I call 'shape' is the general control flow of a
> computation.
> Furthermore, I visualize these abstractions by thinking of a factory
> hall with boxes (values), people (effects) and an assembly line
> (shape).
> Idioms are fully static: values cannot see/depend on each other or on
> the result of effects. Basically the computation is split into 2 phases:
> - effects+gather
> - apply gathered results
> example:
> pure (+) <*> Just 3 <*> Just 5
> The first phase just works through the parts (in sequence) and collects
> the (pure) contents. In this case (Maybe) this means looking for the
> Just constructor to continue, or halting on Nothing. The content inside
> is being treated like a black box. It is not made aware of the effects
> (whether or not Nothing was found somewhere) and it is not being
> examined to choose a different codepath.
> Then if everything worked out (no Nothings were found), the collected
> results are taken out of their black boxes and applied. In this phase
> these results (the +, the 3 and the 5) don't know anything about the
> effects that happened.
> In "factory visualization": every part of the computation (stuff between
> <*>) is a person that will need to perform some task(effect) and deliver
> some result in a box. They will only start performing their task when
> they see a box passing by from the person upstream. They cannot look in
> that box or make decisions based on it or take it off. At the end of the
> line, some manager receives all the boxes and opens them to combine the
> results.
> This is fine for a whole lot of applications and has the advantage that
> the shape of the entire assembly line is clear even before starting
> it. This means (static) optimization can be performed and it's easy to
> reason about the program/costs. Garbage collection (sending workers
> home) is easier, because it's very clear what data is needed where and
> when. I will talk a bit more about these optimizations a bit further
> down. Of course this assembly line is not flexible enough for more
> advanced cases.
> Let's see an example of that(State):
> pure const <*> get <*> put 8
> This is a perfectly fine idiom, albeit not very useful.
> When run (with initial state 4) the first worker will package up a box
> with "const" and send it downstream. The second worker gets the seeded
> state from the "state cupboard" and put it in a box (4). When that box
> passes by worker 3, he will walk to the state cupboard and put 8 in
> it. Then to signal he's ready, he packs a box with (). At the end of the
> line, someone opens the boxes "const" "4" and "()", which computes to
> just 4. So we end up with the answer 4 and an updated cupboard
> containing 8.
> Why is this not very useful? Well we would probably want to be able to
> put state in that depends on certain stuff we got out earlier, instead
> of just supplying a hard coded 8 that was known before starting the
> line. Unfortunately, this is not possible with idioms as workers cannot
> open each other's boxes.
> Now, let's skip Arrows for a minute and move straight to Monads:
> get >>= \x -> put (x + 1) >> return x
> As you can see, monads tackle this issue by putting everything in
> sequence. Not just the effects, but values too. Like this, they can
> "see" upstream values and upstream effects and influence the effects and
> shape of things to come further "downstream".
> Another example (State again):
> do x <- get
>    if x > 100
>      then do put 0
>              return "overflow"
>      else do put (x+1)
>              executeBatch x
>              return "normal operation"
> This example shows nicely how the entire shape is dynamically chosen
> when using a Monad, influencing both which effects will apply (will the
> batch job run?) and result (status string).
> But let's look a bit closer at how Monad performs this trick:
> get >>= (\x -> put (x + 1) >>= (\_ -> return x))
> get >>= (\x ->
>   if x > 100 then (put 0 >>= (\_ -> return "overflow"))
>              else (put (x+1) >>= (\_ ->
>                     executeBatch x >>= (\_ ->
>                     return "normal operation"))))
> I've added parentheses to clearly show the "parts" involved.
> Basically both these cases look like
> get >>= xyz  (only 2 parts, get and some unknown xyz)
> So what can we say about xyz? Not a whole lot. xyz is a function that
> will return a new monadic value when given an input. But we cannot
> really statically inspect a function without applying it to an input
> value. So basically we don't know what will happen next until we are
> already running.
> To look at it from the factory-visualization perspective, we have
> divided the assembly-line into a lot of separate parts. Worker 1 gets
> the state from the state cupboard and puts it on the line. But the line
> is very short and just flows to worker 2. Worker 2 then receives the
> box, opens it and then starts to reorganize the factory to proceed. He
> might need to place new pieces of assemly-line to new parts of the
> factory, phone workers to come to work, whatever. Basically the entire
> factory is 1 big black box except for the task/effect of worker 1.
> This is extremely powerful, as worker 2 can decide truly dynamically
> what to do. But we lose our possibility to optimize things at compile
> time and to reason about the shape and possible outcomes from the
> language itself. Sure, by looking at the sources we (and the compiler)
> can figure out a bit about what's going on, but far less well than with
> idioms, as things really depend on runtime inputs now.
> Now, let's look at Arrows and how they tackle the same problem:
> get >>> arr (\x -> (x + 1, x) ) >>> first put >>> arr snd
> or using arrow syntax:
> proc _ -> do
>   r <- get -< ()
>   put -< r + 1
>   returnA -< r
> In factory-visualization: workers can look inside each other's boxes or
> take them off the line.
> Worker 1 gets the state from the cupboard and puts it in a box.
> Worker 2 looks at this box, calculates +1 and updates the state
> cupboard.
> When we run this, starting with 4 in the state cupboard, we get back the
> result (4) at the end of the line, while the state cupboard now contains
> 5 (a value that depended on a previous effect, which was not possible
> with idioms). So what's up with these "arr" and tuples and
> first/seconds/fst/snd parts in the normal (non-arrow) notation? I like
> to think of it as flow control for the assembly line. Like tags being
> put on the boxes to indicate which co-worker they are meant for. Simple
> robotic parts of the line (arr snd) just throw out boxes that aren't
> needed anymore so they don't have to travel all the way to the end of
> the line.
> So from this example it's clear that arrows have some extra power over
> idioms, without sacrificing the clarity of the entire factory-flow.
> All static optimizations that are possible with idioms should still work
> with arrows, so basically I think they are just plain better from all
> technical points of view. But syntactically I cannot stand them :)
> Shuffling tuples around constructing, deconstructing them everywhere
> just doesn't lead to readable code and I'm not 100% sure that the
> compiler can fully optimize them away. Arrow syntax helps a lot, but
> compared to an elegant idiom (especially if you have idiom brackets
> available like in idris or using SHE) it's just ugly.
> So how about making dynamic choices based on box contents?
> This is possible using ArrowChoice. The existence of this separate class
> probably implies that ArrowChoice cannot always be implemented for every
> Arrow, but it might just be that the designers of the Arrow classes
> wanted to keep things as modular as possible.
> I'm not going into the technical details of ArrowChoice (it's a bunch of
> box labeling tricks once again) but in factory-visualization there is a
> big difference between the if-then-else within Monad and the
> if-then-else in Arrow. Remember, for Monad, after making the choice, the
> rest of the factory had to be reorganized and connected before we could
> continue. We, the programmers knew there were only 2 possible outcomes,
> but at runtine everything was handled as if any random new factory setup
> should be possible.
> With Arrows, we can nicely see (before starting) that a certain part of
> the assembly line will make a choice. It has 2 lines flowing from it so
> it's clear that at runtime the worker will have to place the boxes on 1
> of these continuation lines. We can reason about both situations and see
> the remaining layout of the factory and reason about that too. At
> runtime it remains static. No moving heavy machinery around.
> I think that in 99% of all situations, this solution is way more elegant
> than the monad solution. The full-dynamism that monads add really sounds
> like overkill. Looking at most code, the possible code-paths *are* known
> beforehand (to programmers), so it's a shame that knowledge gets
> destroyed by monads by using a function (a -> m b) to "bind" the parts.
> However, in haskell, there are many nice libraries that provide monadic
> interfaces and not a lot that have Arrow+ArrowChoice. Even when they
> would be perfectly suitable and the dynamics of monad aren't needed.
> So because of this, if you need a few of these libraries for your
> application, you stick to monads, because you don't want to end up with
> many different syntaxes everywhere.
> Ok, nearing the end. This got a bit bigger than I planned =)
> Yet another view at the arrow -> monad difference:
> class Arrow a => ArrowApply a where
>     app :: a (a b c, b) c
> ArrowApply is "the last step". If your arrow can implement ArrowApply
> you basically are a monad and you've lost the nice static properties
> that idiom and arrow gave. It's quite clear from the signature of 'app'
> why this is. In this representation it's not a worker himself that
> starts to reorganize the entire factory when he receives his input. In
> this case he just receives a rather big box containing an entire new
> assembly line to be placed in the next part of the factory, and a small
> box to put into that new line. See? The same dynamism from an even more
> extreme point of view :)
> Another thing I want to point out, because it's closely related:
> Alternative/ArrowPlus/MonadPlus
> These provide the assembly lines with another form of
> choice/combination. Of course you should note that not every
> idiom(Applicative) is an Alternative, and the same is true for Arrow and
> Monad. They all work when the effect has some notion of emptiness and
> there is some way to combine stuff (Monoid). For Maybe, empty is Nothing
> and when we have something (Just) we feel no need to combine. For lists,
> [] is empty and combining is just concatenation.
> So why do I mention this at all? Because it can act like a kind of
> choice (if/then/else) or as a way to traverse multiple codepaths, which
> is especially useful for idioms, as we've just seen these have no
> native ways to do this. Of course you have to remember that this isn't
> really a dynamic choice "inside". But it's not completely steered from
> outside of the factory either. It's somewhat nicely halfway and of
> course limited to "is it empty? / did it succeed?" type of choices only,
> but in many cases (parsing for example) it can just give idioms that
> extra boost it misses, without having to move to arrows/monads.
> I haven't bothered thinking of a factory-visualization analogy for these
> yet, because I'm afraid nobody wants to work there anymore if they have
> to worry of Monoids sneaking around.
> Lastly: what about these static optimizations I keep mentioning?
> It is explained in http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Papers/arrows.pdf
> chapter 3.
> Another nice example, which is more about reasoning about code:
> http://blog.downstairspeople.org/2010/06/14/a-brutal-introduction-to-arrows
> Both examples build up static information about a computation/assembly
> line without starting it yet. This information can then be used to
> optimize certain parts (not run an expensive computation if we already
> know the outcome), combine parts (do 2 things at once if we know they
> are closely related) or to refuse to run at all unless certain
> conditions (performance/security) aren't met.
> But while having worked with dependently typed languages for some time
> now, both these examples feel redundant in a way.
> They both just combine a piece of static data with some dynamic data
> (function). Then on startup, they collapse the static stuff, act upon
> what they've learned(optimize,report back) and leave the dynamic part as
> a result, to run. So in a way they are all about an ordinary function,
> with some fancy extra knowledge about it that needs to be stored
> somewhere, and a phase where this knowledge is used to deliver an
> optimized runtime thingy. Sounds an awful lot like what compilers do,
> right?  Now, when these cases were worked out, haskell's type system was
> not sufficient to store the static knowledge and to apply it, but
> currently, with all modern extensions it's getting awfully close, if
> it's not there already.
> So perhaps in the near future, we can just supply Monad with advanced
> static knowledge+reasoning to give it all the nice properties that arrow
> and idiom have.
> Have a nice weekend,
> Mathijs
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