[Haskell-cafe] How hard is it to start a web startup using Haskell?

Tue Dec 27 23:06:54 CET 2011

A good compromise might be opa (not used it myself, but I've been
reading up on it as a possible candidate for any personal web projects
I might want to do). It is not haskell, but it is ML-derived, and
specifically for webapps. It has some example apps available, though
nothing near the volume of apps rails or django would have.

martin

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Haisheng Wu <freizl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Turns out that those guys doing start-up with Haskell are already expert at
> Haskell.
> Hence choosing Haskell is more straightforward.
>
> I'm thinking of using Haskell since it looks cool and beautiful.
> However I have little experience and will move slowly at certain begging
> period.
> This sounds not good to a startup company.
>
> Comparing with Django in Python, Rails in Ruby, yesod and snap looks not
> that mature.
> Also, for instance, I'd like to build up a CRM application company, I
> could leverage some open source projects in other languages.  In Haskell, we
> need to build from scratch basically.
>
> Appreciate your suggestions/comments.
>
> -Simon
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:30 AM, David Pollak
> <feeder.of.the.bears at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Yves Parès <limestrael at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Haskell is a mature platform that provides lots of goodies that I might
>>> > otherwise have to write (like the goodies I wrote in Lift including an
>>> > Actors library)
>>>
>>> I don't get it: Actors are at the core of Scala concurrency model,
>>
>>
>> Actors as implemented in the Scala distribution were (and probably still
>> are) horrid.  They have poor performance, memory retention issues, and an
>> overall poor design.  When Lift relied on Scala's Actors, a Lift-comet site
>> needed to be restarted every few weeks because of pent-up memory issues.  On
>> the other hand, with Lift Actors, http://demo.liftweb.net has been running
>> since July 7th.
>>
>>>
>>> and are expanded for distributed programming through Akka for instance.
>>
>>
>> Actually, no.  Scala's Actors are not expanded by Akka (although Akka
>> Actors may replace the existing Actor implementation in the Scala library).
>>  Akka is yet another replacement for Scala's Actor library and Akka's
>> distributed capabilities are weak and brittle.  Also, Lift's Actor library
>> and Martin Odersky's flames about it paved the way for Akka because I took
>> the heat that might have driven Jonas out of the Scala community when Akka
>> was a small project.
>>
>>>
>>> To me it'd be the other way around: you'd have to develop Actors in
>>> Haskell, don't you?
>>
>>
>> I've come to understand that Actors are a weak concurrency/distribution
>> paradigm.  Anything that has a type signature Any => Unit is not composable
>> and will lead to the same kinds of issues that we're looking for the
>> compiler in Haskell to help us with (put another way, if you like Smalltalk
>> and Ruby, then Actors seem pretty cool.)
>>
>> On the other hand, many of Haskell's libraries (STM, Iteratees, etc.) have
>> a much more composable set of concurrency primitives.
>>
>>>
>>> Or maybe you don't mean the same thing by 'Actor'?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/12/19 David Pollak <feeder.of.the.bears at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Ivan Perez
>>>> <ivanperezdominguez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm actually trying to make a list of companies and people using
>>>>> Haskell
>>>>> for for-profit real world software development.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to know the names of those startups, if possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am building http://visi.pro on Haskell.  I am doing it for a number of
>>>> reasons:
>>>>
>>>> Haskell is a mature platform that provides lots of goodies that I might
>>>> otherwise have to write (like the goodies I wrote in Lift including an
>>>> Actors library)
>>>> Haskell allows a lot of nice "things" that make building a language and
>>>> associated tools easier (like laziness)
>>>> Haskell is a filter for team members. Just like Foursquare uses Scala as
>>>> a filter for candidates in recruiting, I'm using Haskell as a filter... if
>>>> you have some good Haskell open source code, it's a way to indicate to me
>>>> that you're a strong developer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Ivan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 December 2011 18:42, Michael Snoyman <michael at snoyman.com> wrote:
>>>>> > On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Gracjan Polak
>>>>> > <gracjanpolak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hi all,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The question 'How hard is it to start a technical startup with
>>>>> >> Haskell?'
>>>>> >> happened a couple of times on this list. Sometimes it was in the
>>>>> >> form 'How hard
>>>>> >> is to find Haskell programmers?' or 'Are there any Haskell jobs?'.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'd like to provide one data point as an answer:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ngbbp/haskell_only_esigning_startup_closes_second_angel/
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Full disclosure: I'm one of two that founded this startup.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> How are others doing businesses using Haskell doing these days?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't run a startup myself, but I know of at least three startups
>>>>> > using Haskell for web development (through Yesod), and my company is
>>>>> > basing its new web products on Yesod as well. I think there are
>>>>> > plenty
>>>>> > of highly qualified Haskell programmers out there, especially if
>>>>> > you're willing to let someone work remotely.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Michael
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>>>> > Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org
>>>>> > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>>>> Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org
>>>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Visi.Pro, Cloud Computing for the Rest of Us http://visi.pro
>>>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>>>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>>>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>>> Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org
>>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Visi.Pro, Cloud Computing for the Rest of Us http://visi.pro
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Blog: http://goodstuff.im
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe at haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>