[Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

[John A. De Goes]

I think they made a mistake choosing a syntax so close to Haskell:

	1. It's close enough to Haskell to attract Haskellers;
	2. It's far enough away from Haskell to push Haskellers away;
	3. It's not the language one would design if one were prioritizing  
easy interop with Java in a modern lazy, functional language.

If CAL were 100% Haskell 98 + extensions, it would be a success  
(Haskell + all Java libraries, trivial cross-platform library  
development, Haskell on Android & AppEngine, etc.). If it were nothing  
like Haskell, but had the features of Haskell plus strong, seamless,  
and easy Java interop, then it would be a success. Having neither, I'm  
not surprised it has no community and development has ceased.

Regards,

John A. De Goes
N-Brain, Inc.
The Evolution of Collaboration

http://www.n-brain.net    |    877-376-2724 x 101

On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:

> That's a really shame. Any idea why?
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:02 PM, John A. De Goes <john at n-brain.net>  
> wrote:
>
> CAL is interesting, but unfortunately dead, and has no community.
>
> Regards,
>
> John A. De Goes
> N-Brain, Inc.
> The Evolution of Collaboration
>
> http://www.n-brain.net    |    877-376-2724 x 101
>
> On Sep 27, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
>
>> That's not really true. Just use CAL from the Open Quark  
>> framework... It's almost Haskell 98, with some extras, and compiles  
>> to fast JVM code.
>>
>> http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html
>>
>> They even seem to do all kinds of advanced optimizations - like  
>> converting tail calls to loops - to get good Java performance.
>>
>> And they have a better record system, a graphical environment to  
>> learn it, etc.
>>
>> So I think CAL should be in the list, and since it's basically  
>> Haskell...
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM, John A. De Goes <john at n-brain.net>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure what the point of your series is. No one who is using  
>> Java now commercially can move to Haskell because Haskell doesn't  
>> run on the JVM.
>>
>> It makes sense to discuss Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Scala, Fan, etc.,  
>> as "next Java's", because they all run on the JVM and have seamless  
>> interop with Java. Haskell is not in this category. It's stuck in a  
>> different world, wholly inaccessible to the masses.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John A. De Goes
>> N-Brain, Inc.
>> The Evolution of Collaboration
>>
>> http://www.n-brain.net    |    877-376-2724 x 101
>>
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:
>>
>> No, it's not quite what it sounds like. :-)
>>
>> Stuart Halloway recently posted a series of blog entries entitled
>> "Java.next"[1], discussing the benefits of four other languages that
>> compile to JVM bytecode and interoperate with Java: Clojure, Groovy,
>> JRuby, and Scala. I thought I'd put my oar in and write a parallel
>> series comparing Haskell to these. I've finished a draft of the first
>> posting, started on the third, and made a couple of notes on the  
>> second
>> and fourth, and I thought I'd post the drafts[2] and solicit comments
>> here. If you have time to read and comment, I'd greatly appreciate  
>> the
>> help; feel free either to e-mail me privately or post here. Also feel
>> free to forward this to anybody else you feel might be interested in
>> commenting.
>>
>> I'll probably be posting these about one per week, starting some time
>> next week.
>>
>> [1]: http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/24/java-next-overview
>> [2]: http://www.starling-software.com/en/blog/drafts/2009/09/27.succ-java-summary.html
>>
>> cjs
>> -- 
>> Curt Sampson       <cjs at starling-software.com>        +81 90 7737  
>> 2974
>>          Functional programming in all senses of the word:
>>                  http://www.starling-software.com
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