[Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone

Wed Jun 24 12:00:53 EDT 2009

Advice, yes; leadership, no.  ["guidance" is ambiguous between those two!]

Simon

From: haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org [mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org] On Behalf Of John A. De Goes
Sent: 23 June 2009 15:24
To: Simon Peyton-Jones; Haskell Cafe
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone

How about setting up some sort of "Summer of Code"-type project, where companies can pledge dollars toward a certain goal, which will cover the cost of the work?

Is there someone at GHC HQ who could provide guidance to a sponsored developer working on getting additional targets into HEAD?

Regards,

John A. De Goes
N-Brain, Inc.
The Evolution of Collaboration

http://www.n-brain.net    |    877-376-2724 x 101

On Jun 23, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:

Good news about the iPhone port!

There seems to be quite a bit more interest now in supporting platforms other than win/*nix on x86 these days*.  Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental changes required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity of said changes.  I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when available)  to get an idea.

There is definitely an opportunity here for someone to make an impact.  There is no reason in principle why Haskell can't run on a JVM or .net or other platform.  But it's not just a simple matter of absorbing some patch or other.  Here's a summary I wrote a little while ago:
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC:FAQ#Why_isn.27t_GHC_available_for_.NET_or_on_the_JVM.3F

The short summary is:
*         There is interesting design work to do; and then interesting engineering work to make it a reality.
*         We (at GHC HQ) would love to see that happen, but are not likely to drive it.
*         If someone, or a small group, wanted to take up the cudgels and work on it, we'd be happy to advise.
*         We'd certainly consider folding the results into the HEAD, provided the author(s) are willing to maintain it, and we feel that the result is comprehensible and maintainable.
*         But another viable route might well be to use the GHC API, which means that the result wouldn't be part of GHC at all, just a client of the API.  That would make it much easier to distribute upgrades etc, just as a Cabal package.

Simon

From: haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org<mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org> [mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org] On Behalf Of Rick R
Sent: 23 June 2009 14:53
To: Haskell Cafe
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone

There seems to be quite a bit more interest now in supporting platforms other than win/*nix on x86 these days*.
Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental changes required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity of said changes.  I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when available)  to get an idea.

Perhaps we can devote a section of Haskell Wiki to generalizing Haskell for multiple targets?

The industry has been clamoring for a unified solution to all of the mobile platforms out there. If Haskell can provide that, it would be a huge win for its popularity.

*  Thanks primarily to the iPhone and Android systems. I think currently iPhone is swaying the most votes but Android is due to be on a dozen phones and possibly even a netbook.  (I have heard two announcements and one cancellation with regards to the netbooks).

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:34 AM, John A. De Goes <john at n-brain.net<mailto:john at n-brain.net>> wrote:

I have strong interest in Haskell on the JVM. Not for Android, however.

Seems like every time this topic comes up, the consensus is that it's not easy to support new targets with GHC, but that "work is underway" to make such developments easier.

Regards,

John A. De Goes
N-Brain, Inc.
The Evolution of Collaboration

http://www.n-brain.net    |    877-376-2724 x 101

On Jun 22, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Ryan Trinkle wrote:

Rick,

I know some work has been done on JVM - iirc, Don Stewart did some work back in the day, www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz<http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/%7Epls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz>, but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is.

Is anyone else interested in JVM-based Haskell targets?

Ryan
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 20:42, Rick R <rick.richardson at gmail.com<mailto:rick.richardson at gmail.com>> wrote:
This is definitely good news!

So...  who's doing the Android/JVM target?  ;)

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Peebles <pumpkingod at gmail.com<mailto:pumpkingod at gmail.com>> wrote:
How exciting! I fully support the creation of a new mailing list about
iphone+haskell :)

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Ryan Trinkle<ryant5000 at gmail.com<mailto:ryant5000 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Haskellers,
>
> Recently, there's been a groundswell of activity in the Haskell community
> regarding the Haskell's use in developing iPhone games.  The iPhone is a
> powerful, innovative platform (with a great monetization scheme, to boot),
> and it's not surprising that many of us would want to develop apps for it in
> our favorite language.
>
> I am proud to announce today that my company, iPwn Studios Inc., is
> currently preparing to release an open source patch to GHC that allows it to
> output binaries for iPhone OS.  The patch will be released under a BSD
> license as soon as possible and hopefully integrated into the GHC main-line
> in the near future.  As the first (to my knowledge) Haskell-based game
> studio, iPwn Studios is committed to giving back to the Haskell community
> through open source - contributing to a rising tide that lifts us all.
>
> I would like to take this opportunity to propose the creation of a
> haskell-iphone mailing list, so that all Haskellers working with the iPhone
> - whether for profit or for pleasure - can come together to make Haskell a
> force to be reckoned with in the burgeoning iPhone App marketplace.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Ryan Trinkle
> President, iPwn Studios Inc.
>
> P.S.: If you wish to be involved in the preparation of the GHC patch or in
> the creation of iPwn Studios' first game, don't hesitate to contact me by
> email (ryant5000 at gmail.com<mailto:ryant5000 at gmail.com>), AIM (RyanT5000), or IRC (RyanT5000 on
> irc.freenode.net<http://irc.freenode.net>).
>
>
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