[ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Forth status update / kialo.com

[Simon Peyton Jones]

Trying Kialo.  

Joachim and Iavor write pros for existential quantification that I don't understand.  I tried "suggest improvement", but those suggestions are invisible unless you relally drill down.

SImon


|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-
|  bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 14 December 2020 22:23
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Forth status update /
|  kialo.com
|  
|  Dear Committe,
|  
|  three weeks in, we have all votes. So now things are looking more
|  concrete.
|  
|  As always, the table
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fblob%2Fghc2021%2Fproposals%2F0000-
|  ghc2021.rst%23data&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C10d0e7
|  09a1dd4525973708d8a07ecdad%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%
|  7C637435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
|  joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3i5Pfxw2%2B
|  XKtfsbkhbwjreFArYCfvMDGyw%2F0ctxJfKs%3D&reserved=0
|  has the current data.
|  
|  Would it be helpful to add columns to that table for each committee
|  member? So that you can quickly see who voted what?
|  
|  The following in are safely in (= need more than one vote to change to
|  get out):
|  
|  BangPatterns, BinaryLiterals, ConstrainedClassMethods,
|  ConstraintKinds, DeriveDataTypeable, DeriveFoldable, DeriveFunctor,
|  DeriveGeneric, DeriveLift, DeriveTraversable, EmptyCase,
|  EmptyDataDecls, EmptyDataDeriving, ExplicitForAll, FlexibleContexts,
|  FlexibleInstances, GADTSyntax, GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving,
|  HexFloatLiterals, ImportQualifiedPost, InstanceSigs, KindSignatures,
|  MultiParamTypeClasses, NamedFieldPuns, NumericUnderscores, PolyKinds,
|  PostfixOperators, RankNTypes, StandaloneDeriving, StarIsType,
|  TypeApplications, TypeSynonymInstances
|  
|  The following are barely in (exactly 8 votes in favor, and 3 against):
|  
|  ExistentialQuantification, NamedWildCards, StandaloneKindSignatures,
|  TypeOperators
|  
|  The following are short one vote (7 in favor, 4 against):
|  
|  DerivingStrategies, ForeignFunctionInterface, GADTs, MonoLocalBinds,
|  NegativeLiterals, RecordWildCards, ScopedTypeVariables, TupleSections,
|  TypeFamilies
|  
|  
|  I am sure we can have plenty of discussion for each of these. Probably
|  without end. As Simon says, mailing lists don't scale. So I think we
|  have two choices:
|  
|  1. Let the numbers decide, and accept whatever comes out. According to
|  the process (which we should only follow if we find it helpful) we'd
|  maybe update our votes, and maybe point out new facets, for one week,
|  and then just take whatever has 8 votes.
|  
|  or
|  
|  2. Explore a more efficient discussion format.
|  
|  For the latter I mentioned kialo.com before, and maybe it is worth a
|  try, so I set up a discussion there:
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
|  kialo.com%2Fwhich-haskell-extensions-should-go-into-ghc2021-
|  43548%3Fpath%3D43548.0&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C10
|  d0e709a1dd4525973708d8a07ecdad%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%
|  7C0%7C637435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
|  CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=I8nLXqK
|  Mf32ctvlrPcPS%2BKBD%2FSw5vrV%2B0Fv%2BYvP%2Bbho%3D&reserved=0
|  
|  So what do you see there?
|  
|  There is a discussion tree:
|  
|  The root is "what goes in GHC2021"
|  
|  The next layer are all extensions with 7 or 8 votes.
|  (I assume we should focus on those initially, but feel free to add
|  more or ask me to.) For example:  TupleSections
|  
|  And then each of these has a column where we can collect Pros and
|  cons.
|  For example:
|  Pro: Opt-in Syntax
|  Con: Possible clash with extra-comma syntax extensions.
|  
|  So you can treat it like a wiki, but with structure to organize the
|  discussion.
|  
|  In fact, each pro and con is itself a node where you can add
|  supporting and disagreeing comments. This means that if you _disagree_
|  that TupleSections are actually Opt-in syntax, there is a dedicated
|  place to raise that point, rather than putting "Not actually opt-in"
|  in the Con column of TupleSections...
|  
|  A good way to navigate the discussion seems to be the radial icon in
|  the top left; it opens a radial view of the whole discussion, and you
|  can read arguments by hovering.
|  
|  
|  The site doesn't offer voting, it is only about structuring the
|  discussion, and it is designed for much larger and much more
|  contentious debates (e.g. "Brexit"). So we'll see how well it works
|  for us and if it's helpful.
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  
|  
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
|  oachim-
|  breitner.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C10d0e709a1
|  dd4525973708d8a07ecdad%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
|  7435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
|  2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7N%2FDBw%2BRwVr
|  DcVqSS7BQroJAg8R3ccoLQ9Hua%2FgwbAE%3D&reserved=0
|  
|  
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