GHC and the future of Freenode

Carter Schonwald carter.schonwald at
Thu May 20 13:21:53 UTC 2021

I’ll try again.

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:26 PM Mario Carneiro <mcarneir at>

> Speaking as a *heavy* user of the Rust and Lean zulip instances, I find it
> a huge improvement over the alternatives of Gitter and Discord, and I think
> IRC although I have not used IRC much. It takes some getting used to, but
> the topic threading is absolutely essential once you reach a certain size.
> Looking at other chat platforms, overlapping conversations are a major
> problem when you have more than around 10 people online at once. Rust
> routinely has 50 or more online at once, and channels help but even then
> you will have multiple topics in a single channel, and that extra level of
> organization is absolutely warranted. It also helps when you want to look
> back at the discussion (or even just find it again!) or continue an old
> conversation from a year ago. Most of these activities I couldn't even
> imagine doing in a Gitter/Discord style chat platform.
> I have no stake in this discussion, but I thought I should balance out the
> Zulip downvotes with some positive experiences. (Also, I would definitely
> be more likely to participate on a haskell Zulip than an IRC or Matrix
> instance, FWIW.)
> Mario Carneiro
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:58 PM Carter Schonwald <
> carter.schonwald at> wrote:
>> I definitely find Zulip confusing and have failed to use it every time
>> I’ve tried
>> If normal threading is lasagna layers, Zulip threading is like trying to
>> hold cooked spaghetti in your ha d.
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:40 PM Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64 at>
>> wrote:
>>> (I'm a little ashamed that I lurk on this list but the thing that brings
>>> me out of lurking is a post on communication technologies)
>>> Not Zulip.
>>> Please not Zulip.
>>> I've used Zulip once many years ago, and once this year. Both times, its
>>> interface felt clunky, and it felt like it was trying to get the best of
>>> IRC, Slack, and a BBS and instead getting the worst of all the worlds.
>>> Synchronous communication was confusing, asynchronous communication was
>>> limited, and topics and channels didn't really do anything to organize
>>> things.
>>> I have two alternatives to add to consideration:
>>> * Mattermost: it's an open-source clone of Slack, which has its
>>> advantages and disadvantages, but at least it's familiar and heavily used UI
>>> * Discourse: it's an asynchronous communication tool, but that may
>>> acceptable or preferable, and there is already a Haskell Discourse set up (
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ben Gamari <ben at> wrote:
>>>> Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at> writes:
>>>> > I personally vote for irc.  Perhaps via Libera.
>>>> >
>>>> > What are some example vibrant  technical communities on matrix? I’ve
>>>> > experienced such on irc but less so via more recent / newer platforms
>>>> >
>>>> I know that many subcommunities within the Rust community use Matrix. I
>>>> have had quite good interactions in this context. Frankly I think that
>>>> most of these newer options are technically much more conducive to
>>>> technical collaboration than IRC.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> - Ben
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