[ANNOUNCE] You should try Hadrian

[Sebastian Graf]

Side note: On my Windows my machine, where I use the environment provided
by `stack exec --no-ghc-package-path bash`, I have to do `bash -c 'pushd .
&& . /etc/profile && popd && ./configure --enable-tarballs-autodownload'`
or something along those lines for some time now (probably since the boot
script has been rewritten to python?).

Am Mo., 28. Jan. 2019 um 00:44 Uhr schrieb Phyx <lonetiger at gmail.com>:

> Hi Andrey
>
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 10:49 PM Andrey Mokhov <
> andrey.mokhov at newcastle.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tamar,
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the relevant bullet point from the README:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Windows, if you do not want to install MSYS, you can
>>
>> > use the Stack-based build script (Stack provides a managed
>>
>> > MSYS environment), as described in these instructions.
>>
>> > If you don't mind installing MSYS yourself or already have it,
>>
>> > you can use the Cabal-based build script.
>>
>
> Yes, I was referring to the "My first build" heading which had a call to
> build.bat, but it seems my branch was just old and the file was updated 11
> days ago to use cabal instead of stack.
> Now the rest of the file also makes sense. Apologies for that, I thought I
> had updated
>
>
>>
>> This claim is based on my experience. Installing the MSYS environment has
>> never worked out smoothly for me. Doing this via Stack was indeed more
>> robust (especially, when struggling with building GHC on Windows CI!). Has
>> this been different in your experience?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, stack does nothing special than just un-tar the binary distribution
> of msys2. The problem is that this binary distribution is not kept up to
> date unless things break. By that point they may have gotten so out of date
> that the distribution simply can't even be upgraded. e.g. A while ago they
> used a distribution that's so old it couldn't deal with pacman's
> invalidating old certificates, which means you couldn't use it to update
> ca-certificates.
>
> It also can't handle when msys upstream changes core dependencies. One
> such update is a change in march that introduced a cyclic dependency
> between catgets libcatgets and some packages. Or when they change the
> package layout as they did removing the old shell scripts and making
> Mingw32.exe and Mingw64.exe. I can name many more. The fact is the msys2
> installers are set up to work around these updates, or you must work around
> them when initializing the environment to fix these.
>
> And I see no evidence based on past issues that stack actually keeps their
> msys2 installs up to date. So I don't want to go into the business of
> managing stack msys2 issues for ghc builds.
>
> > I'm just confused when it was decided to switch the defaults,
>>
>> > and why, without any consultation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m not sure what you mean. Could you clarify? The file `doc/windows.md`
>> is 3 years old and hasn’t changed much since creation. The default build
>> script `build.bat` currently uses Cabal:
>>
>>
>>
>> ```
>>
>> rem By default on Windows we build Hadrian using Cabal
>>
>> hadrian/build.cabal.bat %*
>>
>> ```
>>
>
> Yes.. I'm pretty sure when I looked at it before today it was pointing to
> build.stack.bat, but that seems to be a two week old tree. So my fault
> there.
>
> Sorry, should have checked on gitlab!
>
> Regards,
> Tamar
>
>
>>
>>
>> P.S.: I’ve just noticed that `doc/windows.md` hasn’t been updated when
>> moving to GitLab, and created this MR to fix this:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/merge_requests/239
>>
>>
>>
>> Please jump into the comments there if you’d like me to fix/clarify
>> anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reaching out!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andrey
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Phyx [mailto:lonetiger at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 27 January 2019 21:11
>> *To:* Andrey Mokhov <andrey.mokhov at newcastle.ac.uk>; Ben Gamari <
>> ben at well-typed.com>
>> *Cc:* GHC developers <ghc-devs at haskell.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ANNOUNCE] You should try Hadrian
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Andrey,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking at
>> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/blob/master/hadrian/README.md and
>> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/blob/master/hadrian/doc/windows.md
>>
>> wondering why the default instructions for Windows are using stack, this
>> isn't currently the case.
>>
>>
>>
>> In order for ./boot and configure to work already you need to be in an
>> msys2 environment. So having stack install its own, un-updated msys2 is not
>> a workflow I would recommend.
>>
>>
>>
>> There's a dubious claim there that using stack is "more robust", what is
>> this claim based on?
>>
>> I'm just confused when it was decided to switch the defaults, and why,
>> without any consultation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tamar
>>
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