[Haskell-beginners] happstack versus yesod

Ramy Abdel-Azim ramy.abdelazim at gmail.com
Tue Apr 5 20:50:57 CEST 2011

well, i'll add my $.02 here (hopefully without throwing fuel on the fire)
and say that - without knowing much about either, I asked the question for
pete's sake! - is that from what you're saying, if I'dlike to use one of
these frameworks to not only build my website but to also solidify what
knowledge of haskell i've acquired, I should go with Happstack.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Michael Snoyman <michael at snoyman.com> wrote:

> This probably isn't the right forum for expressing this thought, but here
> goes anyway:
> What exactly is the freedom that Yesod takes away from you? I know this
> idea gets passed around a lot: Yesod isn't "really" Haskell, Yesod is its
> own language, etc. But all of that is really just talking about some sugar
> that Yesod puts in place for you: under the surface, it's just functions,
> data types and type classes. You can go ahead and write a complete Yesod
> application without using Template Haskell of QuasiQuotation.
> So what's the restriction that Yesod has that Happstack/Snap don't? Yesod
> requires you to provide some datatypes. That's it. What's the purpose of the
> datatypes? Mostly, it's about type-safe URLs. I'm not exactly sure why the
> term "restriction" or "freedom" even applies here: Yesod has a *feature*
> that Happstack/Snap do not include out of the box.
> Let me phrase this in a different way: "But I don't like Haskell, because
> the idea of Python in more interesting for me. Python gives you some
> freedom." I really do see this as the same argument. You can go ahead and
> right some code without static type checking in Python, and you might even
> write it faster than you would have in Haskell. But go ahead and start
> making changes, and unless you have some very good unit tests, you're in for
> a world of hurt. In Haskell, often times the compiler will save you from
> yourself.
> The same is true in Yesod. I've refactored incredibly large codebases, with
> hundreds of different resource patterns, and *never* had to worry about
> 404s. Maybe some people consider that giving up freedom. I consider it
> giving up the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot.
> Oh, and if you are absolutely dependent on the idea of getting rid of this
> data-type requirements, and want all the freedom of dynamic routes, you can
> try out a 44 line module[1] that I mentioned recently[2].
> OK, enough of this rant. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just tired of
> this notion that Yesod is a ball-and-chain around your ankles. People can
> have legitimate reasons to prefer Happstack or Snap to Yesod, I've never
> claimed that it was a perfect framework for everyone. I just don't think
> this is one of those legitimate reasons.
> Michael
> [1] https://gist.github.com/884802
> <https://gist.github.com/884802>[2]
> http://osdir.com/ml/general/2011-04/msg02160.html
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Alexey G <kreed131 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello. It's very interesting theme for me and I want to express my
>> opinion.
>> Yesod - very fast web-framework(
>> http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/preliminary-warp-cross-language-benchmarks).
>> But I don't like Yesod, because idea of Happstack more interesting for me.
>> Happstack gives to you some freedom.
>> I trying to use Snap Framework now. And it's very good for me. Try it
>> http://snapframework.com/!
>> Sorry for my english.
>> 2011/4/5 Ramy Abdel-Azim <ramy.abdelazim at gmail.com>
>>> I already posted about this a little bit but i think i should let the old
>>> thread get back to it's regularly scheduled conversaion. on to my question:
>>> So I know there are a million easier ways to createa  blog (wordpress,
>>> django, drupal, etc. etc.) but which would you recommend I use to build a
>>> beginner website that is simliar to a blog: happstack or yesod?
>>> _Ramy
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