[Haskell-begin] Re: New List

Angelos Sphyris knightofmathematics at hol.gr
Tue Jul 22 06:49:19 EDT 2008

I believe that using beginners at haskell.org and [Haskell-begin] in the subject line may confuse people. 
So, I would opt for [Haskell-beginners]. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benjamin L.Russell" <DekuDekuplex at Yahoo.com>
To: <beginners at haskell.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Haskell-begin] Re: New List

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:56:59 -0400, John Dorsey <haskell at colquitt.org>
> wrote:
>>I already filter on something else.  I proposed adding the prefix for
>>two reasons:  (1) I file all my haskell-related lists into the same
>>box, and the prefix is handy for quickly telling which one I'm reading.
>>This can make the difference between, say, suggesting unsafePerformIO
>>(in the cafe) or a brief explanation of IO (on this list).  And (2) for
>>conistency with [Haskell] and [Haskell-cafe].
> I see your point:  You would appreciate being able to use
> "[Haskell-begin] unsafePerformIO" vs. "[Haskell-cafe] unsafePerformIO"
> to differentiate between a brief explanation of IO on
> Haskell-Beginners vs. suggesting unsafePerformIO on Haskell-Cafe.
> That actually is a valid point, and could prove useful at times.
> Apart from just consistency with "[Haskell]" and "[Haskell-cafe]" in
> the prefix for the subject lines of Haskell and Haskell-Cafe, it seems
> that a prefix would be useful in ensuring consistency in having this
> mailing list referred to as "Haskell-Beginners," and not just
> "Beginners," by new members.  Otherwise, the fact that the e-mail
> address is beginners at haskell.org, and not
> haskell-beginners at haskell.org, could create confusion.  New members
> would probably start saying "Haskell" vs. "Haskell-Cafe" vs.
> "Beginners," leading to further inconsistencies in the proper names.
> Eventually, most people would just start calling this list "Beginners"
> because the name is shorter, and the name "Haskell-Beginners" would
> become mostly forgotten.  However, if the prefix referred to the
> proper name of the list in every message, this confusion could be
> minimized.
>>It's not important to me.  Sounds like the majority are for no prefix.
> Nonetheless, you had a valid point, and many users had stated that as
> long as the prefix was short, the presence or absence of the prefix
> did not really matter to them.  Ideally, my personal preference would
> be to be completely consistent with [Haskell] and [Haskell-cafe], and
> change the prefix to [Haskell-beginners], but it seems that then many
> readers would believe this prefix to be too long and make the subject
> line hard to read.
> For the sake of argument, let's experiment:
> [Haskell-begin] unsafePerformIO
> [Haskell-beginners] unsafePerformIO
> Now, let's try a longer example:
> [Haskell-begin] beginners mailing list should be beginner's choice
> [Haskell-beginners] beginners mailing list should be beginner's choice
> Right now, in my Yahoo! Mail Haskell-Cafe folder, a typical truncated
> long subject-line message reads as follows:
> [Haskell-cafe] ghc 6.8.3 build error with __DISCARD__ linking problem,
> please hel
> That's 81 characters.
> Right now, the longest example that I can find of a subject line in
> Haskell-Beginners is the following:
> [Haskell-begin] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive
> patterns
> That's 71 characters, using "[Haskell-begin]."  If we changed
> "[Haskell-begin]" to "[Haskell-beginners]," that would add 4
> characters, increasing the length to 75.  That's still below 81.
> Here's a comparison:
> [Haskell-begin] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive
> patterns
> [Haskell-beginners] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive
> patterns
> Given that some mailing lists, such as plt-announce, already get by
> using prefixes of similar length (in their case, "[PLT
> announcement]," I think that in practice, after a few weeks, most
> readers would probably unconsciously just ignore the prefix and read
> the rest, and new readers would be able to read "[Haskell]" vs.
> "[Haskell-cafe]" vs. "[Haskell-beginners]" for consistency (although
> some users would probably complain at first).
> Just for comparison, here are some examples of what is happening with
> the subject lines in plt-announce:
> [PLT announcement] PLT Scheme v4.0
> [PLT announcement] PLT Scheme v4.0.2
> Let's compare what would happen with similar typical subject lines
> with "[Haskell-begin]" vs. "[Haskell-beginners]":
> [Haskell-begin] Exercises for beginners and Natural Tansformations
> [Haskell-beginners] Exercises for beginners and Natural Tansformations
> What do you think?  Opinions, comment?  You decide.
> -- Benjamin L. Russell
> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> Beginners at haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
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