[xmonad] A community-driven effort to make XMonad better and better

Lally Singh lally.singh at gmail.com
Thu Nov 8 16:27:20 CET 2012

How about we stop the arguing and start writing code?  I'm happy to help
merge patches together.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Alfredo Di Napoli <
alfredo.dinapoli at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello guys,
> let me respond with calm to any of you, and then I'm done, because I'm
> starting to get fed up in repeating always the same thing (which are
> contained in previous email). From the overall picture, I'm starting to see
> why xmonad is in the state it is, and why I've involuntary a nerve. Don't
> get me wrong guys, but you are navel-gazing.
> The first thing is about Darcs, and I suspect is strongly related to the
> harsh Brandon's comment. In my opinion, you are acting NOT for the sake of
> xmonad and for the love of the WM, but in a name of a dogfooding attitude
> that I don't share. Even me would like to see Haskell rule the world, and
> use
> it for every possible task, but this is simply not possible in the nowadays
> panorama, full of heterogeneous technology. This means that, if for a
> particular task I consider git and github to be more effective instruments
> for the task at hand, I go for them without thinking twice. What I believe
> in
> is the code base, NOT the VCS. I haven't see a single comment worring about
> the code base or the fact people are complaining for the lack of patches.
> No. Most of you complained about Github evangelism or other nonsenses.
> Sorry
> If I told you so, but this is the kind of comments that put people off from
> the development of anything. But go with order.
> Someone stated (sorry, I can't remember who) that we only need a more
> active
> maintainer and more contributors. Fine. But try to think why we are
> discussing
> all os this, it means that if you hadn't more contributor in the past, you
> are unlikely
> to have them in a near future. Why? Well, because if you don't change
> something, things will remain in the same stasis they used to me. From my
> humble point of you, this is related to two point: navel-gazing and
> doogfooding. Let's face it, and I say it like an Haskell lover and NOT as
> a Github evangelist (which I'm not): Darcs is not, and is not going to be
> the new de-facto VCS. Face it, but please don't hide behind that fact that
> some Haskell project are on Darcs. Haskell ecosystem is not the WHOLE
> software
> ecosystem. There are 100 git repo for every Darcs repo. Please don't get
> offended, it's just a matter-of-fact, and as computer guys now and often
> we should act with pragmatism. Darcs is a VERY good VCS, but it lacks
> infrastructures. Why people contribute on projects on Github or Bitbucket?
> For the same reason the iPhone is the most sold phone of the whole time
> (now
> someone will say I'm a Mac evangelist, despite the fact I'm running Linux
> while writing). They key here is SIMPLICITY. It I have to contribute to a
> project, with a VCS I don't know (and therefore I have to learn), where the
> code base isn't browsable online (just to get the gist), where the bug
> tracker is scattered and hosted on google project, why on earth should I
> contribute? In the name of the holy flame of Haskell? No, people don't
> think like this. They like to have the "pussy-features", like integrated
> wiki, bug tracker, online code browsing. They just clone a repo, hack on
> it,
> do a pull request and whoever has the admin rights can merge the patch. I
> repeat, whoever has the admin rights.
> What I proposed with the Github organization was a means to decouple xmonad
> development with a single maintainer. In an organization, whoever is an
> owner can fix things, and this a great deal more handy to have a
> maintainer bottleneck. I've also followed all the due procedure, I've
> contacted Adam, I've contacted you first, I have invited all people I've
> talked to to join the organization, I've said 1000 times I'm NOT the leader
> of anything, but still Ivan comment's let intend that my initiative was
> perceived like a one-man evangelist that wants to bring everything under
> Github because is cool. Sorry, but that was not my intention, and some guys
> of the ML have understood this, thankfully.
> Now the navel-gazing part. While you are discussing whether the google code
> advanced search is more sophisticated that Github one, or that the project
> should go on Darcs hubs (who cares if is used mainly for Haskell project,
> it
> requires you to register just to browse things, and in the main page I
> can't
> find a project search box to search for things. But hey, it's written in
> Haskell for Haskellers, so you should use it!).
> While you are discussing this, people are asking for months the Java patch
> to be incorporated into the xmonad:
> http://code.google.com/p/xmonad/issues/detail?id=177
> Incidentally, I had to patch the code myself, despite my efforts to contact
> Adam to fix things. In your opinion, why this patch hasn't been
> incorporated
> yet? Mine is that is over complicated to do so, and a system LIKE Github
> (can be also Bitbucket or whatever) lowers the contribution bar at the
> point whoever can simply code, patch and pull-request.
> To conclude this poem, I think I've summarized my point of view. I don't
> want to create a fracture in the community, and as already stated in my
> prev email, I'm NOBODY: I have submitted ZERO patches to xmonad, so Gwern,
> I do believe in do-ocracy too, but I repeat, once again, I've also
> kickstarted
> the whole thing, I'm not the leader of anything. I just started from a
> consideration, followed by a proposed solution to fix things up, and I've
> seen some other people share my thoughts, and I can't ignore them.
> So Ivan, I've not taken the crown off anyone's head, I'm only a Haskell and
> xmonad lover that wants to see his beloved WM maintained and patched. I'm
> beyond the VCS, because I care about THE CODE, sentiment I've struggle to
> find in some replies to my initiative.
> It would have been awesome if the whole community agreed upon the
> initiative,
> and once again I encourage you to let me know if you want to be added to
> the
> Github organization. If the name bothers you, we can even change its names
> and
> start a new fork. It would be an awful thing, with so many effort thrown
> away,
> but if It will be the only viable solution, just as well.
> After all, open source code is - well - open source. The guys from
> Copenhagen are patching their own version of xmonad, so we could start from
> there. You even cared that their fork was actively maintained on Github, so
> why bother is we developed a different fork on our own?
> I think of having expressed all my points. Sorry if the English wasn't
> perfect
> but as you may imply, I'm not a native English speaker.
> I don't think I will answer further to this thread, I said all I had to
> say.
> If you want to support our new, unofficial initiative, feel free to.
> You know where to find us.
> The Github sinners
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