[web-devel] What frameworks are there?

Kyle Murphy orclev at gmail.com
Wed Apr 7 14:19:12 EDT 2010

I'm definitely interested in Yesod, and it's currently at the top of my
rather short list of possibilities, but the relatively immaturity does worry
me a bit, in particular as it pertains to my fourth requirement. I'm not
opposed to making updates from time to time to keep the site current with
the latest release, but I want to avoid having to constantly tweak things,
and most importantly I don't want to end up in the situation where a year or
two down the line the entire framework gets deprecated and I essentially
endup having to re-write the entire site from scratch.

I should probably stress that I'm a relatively newbie to Haskell, and
there's still a few things that I'm trying to get my head around. In
particular I haven't had much chance to really look at TH, and my
understanding of monads is a bit rocky in places although I've got the basic
principle worked out. I'm further hampered in that I'm working on this
project and other Haskell related things in my spair time which is rather
lacking at the moment, so ease of understanding (I.E. good documentation) is
a major bonus for me.

For persistance I'm not all that worried as I can just use one of the HSQL
packages and one of the various SQL servers, although any support in the
framework itself would be welcome.

Near as I can tell, the options for doing websites with Haskell can be
boiled down to:
1) Happs(tack)
2) Yesod
3) Roll your own from low level components

and at least in the case of Yesod there's still a few components that are
essentially roll-your-own, although I should point out I'm not opposed to
that assuming there's some good examples available of exactly how to go
about doing that. In particular I've been looking over the bug tracker and
blog code based on Yesod.

-R. Kyle Murphy
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 13:25, Michael Snoyman <michael at snoyman.com> wrote:

> Hi Kyle,
> Well, the web-routes-quasi package is basically an attempt to split out the
> quasi-quoting used in Yesod so that others can use it. The next release of
> Yesod will in fact depend on web-routes-quasi (in all likelihood).
> The documentation on Yesod *is* sparse at the moment, mostly because the
> API is still immature and will have some major changes over the next few
> releases. If you're looking for something that will have backwards
> compatibility, Yesod is not for you at the moment.
> I will say that I use Yesod in production on a number of websites, and it's
> worked well enough for me. One thing that it is majorly lacking is a
> persistence layer, but I'm working on that[1]. I also have been toying with
> the idea of replacing HStringTemplate with a type-safe templating system[2];
> for fun I'm basing the syntax off of Haml[3]. If you want information on
> either of these projects, or have suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
> If you have other concerns, I'm also interested in hearing them. Yesod is
> young and has plenty of room to grow, but I think it's a pleasure to program
> with and is filling a niche that is missed by other Haskell packages.
> Michael
> [1] http://github.com/snoyberg/persistent
> [2] http://github.com/snoyberg/hamlet
> [3] http://haml-lang.com/
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Kyle Murphy <orclev at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm looking at experimenting with developing a site and due to various
>> constraints I'm considering using one of the haskell frameworks. I
>> experimented a bit with Happstack, although I'm not all that happy with it
>> and I'm interested in alternatives. I've also looked briefly at yesod but it
>> doesn't seem to be very well documented and I've got some concerns. The
>> environment I'm working in has constrained memory, about 300M physical, with
>> a further 500M of swap, but a relatively beefy CPU, so I'm trying to stay
>> away from any of the in memory systems like MACID in happstack. At this
>> point I'm mostly toying with the different frameworks to try to get a feel
>> for them, but in a couple months I'm probably going to need to actually put
>> together a production system that can handle some fairly low duty
>> e-commerce. I'm planning on using Google Checkout for order processing, but
>> aside from that and the memory constraints I don't have any real hard rules
>> for what the framework needs to support. I'm currently running nginx to
>> serve static content on the server, so I could potentially integrate with
>> that, or I could just have whichever framework I end up using serve the
>> static content as well.
>> So, my requirements are as follows:
>> 1) Small memory footprint
>> 2) Relatively simple to extend such that I can integrate it with Google
>> Checkout
>> 3) Documented well enough that I can figure out how to plumb everything
>> together without needing to dig through the guts of the framework
>> 4) Relatively stable such that a year from now I don't need to re-write
>> the entire site because the framework isn't maintained an no longer works on
>> the current version of GHC.
>> Any suggestions?
>> P.S. I'm interested in the quasi-quote package I saw mentioned here
>> recently, but it looks more suited for use by framework developers rather
>> than as a finished component, at least from the limited info I've found.
>> -R. Kyle Murphy
>> --
>> Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
>> _______________________________________________
>> web-devel mailing list
>> web-devel at haskell.org
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/web-devel
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