Why base library changes are only discussed on GHC issue tracker and not on the libraries@ list?

[Oleg Grenrus]

Could the library submissions page be updated to reflect that. I think
that maintainers of random, template-haskell, primitive are not correct
either. I'm not sure whether text and bytestring should be on the list
as well.
Also GHC Trac issue-tracker links are dead.

- Oleg

On 7.7.2021 20.45, chessai wrote:
> I (chessai) am the current maintainer for base.
>
> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 12:41 Oleg Grenrus <oleg.grenrus at iki.fi
> <mailto:oleg.grenrus at iki.fi>> wrote:
>
>     As I understood from the
>     https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions
>     <https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions> page (to which GHC
>     wiki links from
>     https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/contributing#contributing-to-ghc
>     <https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/contributing#contributing-to-ghc>),
>     this job of elevating issue to the CLC is the job of a library
>     maintainer. So I repeat my question: who are the current
>     maintainer(s) of base library to make these calls.
>
>     I'd like to know whom comments I can and cannot ignore when
>     proposing changes, as everyone has an opinion on how base should
>     be (myself including).
>
>     - Oleg
>
>     On 7.7.2021 20.35, Carter Schonwald wrote:
>>     Respectfully: some of us like mailing lists for complicated
>>     discussions :) 
>>
>>     The issue here is deviation from processs that support a wider
>>     range of participants with different accessibility needs and
>>     varying levels of volunteer time. 
>>
>>     More over, a mailing list is easier for curious parties to
>>     subscribe to and filter to a dedicated inbox.  Have you ever
>>     tried doing robust mailbox filters for GitHub or gitlab? It’s
>>     pretty tricky without creating a firehose of all repo events
>>     unless you’re in a group that’s always tagged. 
>>
>>     Any ticket tagged core libraries on gitlab needs to have a
>>     corresponding email to this list for folks who aren’t
>>     administratively in that notification group. Or needs to link to
>>     a thread here motivating it. 
>>
>>     I’m on that notification list for gitlab because current clc
>>     folks wanted me to continue helping out, but that’s not a
>>     scalable open participation model. 
>>
>>     On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:41 PM Sandy Maguire
>>     <sandy at sandymaguire.me <mailto:sandy at sandymaguire.me>> wrote:
>>
>>         At risk of being the messenger who gets shot....
>>
>>         As an outsider, it seems very reasonable to me to file a bug
>>         against the issue tracker for a project whose code I think
>>         should be changed. For better or worse, this is the way that
>>         99% of software projects work. Expecting everyone in the
>>         community to know that they _shouldn't_ be filing bugs
>>         against the issue tracker is a losing battle. I'm more hooked
>>         in than most, and even I didn't know this.
>>
>>         I can empathize with things not being done the way you'd like
>>         to be, but the claim that things happening on the GHC tracker
>>         are done "in private" is silly. The gitlab tracker is 10x
>>         more accessible, and the lack of community engagement on the
>>         mailing lists speaks volumes.
>>
>>         And besides, nobody wants to be on a mailing list anyway.
>>         It's a terrible experience with weird branching and no
>>         persistence, and while there are archives, it's an extremely
>>         unpleasant thing to try to spelunk through.
>>
>>         Best,
>>         Sandy
>>
>>         On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 8:52 AM Henning Thielemann
>>         <lemming at henning-thielemann.de
>>         <mailto:lemming at henning-thielemann.de>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>             On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Oleg Grenrus wrote:
>>
>>             > For example
>>             >
>>             > - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20044
>>             <https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20044>
>>             ByteArray migration
>>             > from primitive to base
>>             > - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20027
>>             <https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20027>
>>             Changing Show String
>>             > behavior
>>             >
>>             > Why they are discussed "in private", I thought
>>             libraries@ list is where
>>             > such changes should be discussed.
>>
>>             I think so, too, and I missed them as well.
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>>
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>>
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