Quo vadis?

[Simon Peyton Jones]

I think the difficulty has always been in finding enough people who are

* Well-informed and well-qualified
* Willing to spend the time to standardise language features

GHC does not help the situation: it's a de-facto standard, which reduces the incentives to spend time in standardisation.

I don’t think we should blame anyone for not wanting to invest this time -- no shame here.  It is a very significant commitment, as I know from editing the Haskell 98 report and the incentives are weak.  Because of that, I am not very optimistic about finding such a group -- we have been abortively trying for several years.

If we want to change that, the first thing is to build a case that greater standardisation is not just an "abstract good" that we all subscribe to, but something whose lack is holding us back.

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: Haskell-prime <haskell-prime-bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of
|  Mario Blaževic
|  Sent: 05 October 2018 17:47
|  To: haskell-prime at haskell.org
|  Subject: Re: Quo vadis?
|  
|  On 2018-10-05 09:10 AM, Henrik Nilsson wrote:
|  > Hi,
|  >
|  > On 10/05/2018 01:20 PM, Mario Blažević wrote:
|  >>      I hereby propose we formally disband the present Haskell 2020
|  >> committee. Our performance has been so dismal
|  >
|  > It has.
|  >
|  > And I should apologise in particular: I've just had far less time than
|  > I thought over the past year for a variety of reasons.
|  >
|  >> that I feel this is the
|  >> only course of action that gives Haskell 2020 any chance of fruition.
|  >> A new committee could then be formed with some more dedicated
|  membership.
|  >
|  > I'm less convinced about that, though. I believe those who signed up
|  > for H2020 actually are people who believe in the value of an updated
|  > standard and has core expertise to make it happen.
|  
|       Regarding the beliefs, if we really represent the most zealous group
|  of Haskell enthusiasts, I have to say the community is in deep trouble. I
|  have no evidence, but I can only hope you're wrong.
|  
|       As for the expertise, my impression is that *everybody* who self-
|  nominated for the committee got accepted. My own self-nomination e-mail
|  [1] explicitly said that
|  
|  
|  > The main reason I'm applying is because I'm afraid that the commitee
|  > might disband like the previous one. If there are enough members
|  > already, feel free to ignore my nomination.
|  
|  Yet I'm in. This was not a high bar to clear.
|  
|  
|  > I can't see how giving up and forming a new group would speed things
|  > up or even increase the chance of success.
|  
|       I was kinda hoping for a Simon ex machina, where a few universally-
|  accepted members of the community hand-pick a new committee.
|  Alternatively, we could come up with some stricter criteria for the next
|  committee before we disband but that assumes we can even get a quorum.
|  
|       Lest I'm suspected of some Machiavellian plot, let me be clear that
|  I refuse to be a part of the next committee, if my proposal should be
|  accepted. Honestly I feel that all members of the present committee with
|  any sense of shame should recuse themselves as well, but that's not up to
|  me.
|  
|  
|  > Instead, what about focusing on identifying a couple of things that
|  > absolutely would have to be in H2020 to make a new standard
|  > worthwhile, like multi-parameter type classes, possibly GADTs, then
|  > figure out what else is needed to support that (like what Anthony
|  > Clayden sketched), and with that as a basis, find out exactly what
|  > technical problems, if any, are hindering progress?
|  >
|  > If this could be neatly summarized, then we'd actually be in a
|  > position to make some progress.
|  
|       That is much the plan we agreed on over a year ago during ICFP 2018.
|  The activity since then is plain to see.
|  
|  
|  [1]
|  http://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2015-
|  September/003939.html
|  
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