[Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Sun Oct 28 18:42:16 UTC 2018

We're creeping closer to the release date. I spent some time this
weekend tweaking the survey in response to suggestions from this thread
and also from GitHub. I don't plan on making any large changes to the
survey between now and Thursday, except in response to feedback. Please
take a look at the survey to make sure that you're happy with it! Let me
know if there are any questions that you would like to be added,
removed, or changed. You can view the survey here:
https://airtable.com/shr8G4RBPD9T6tnDf
You can deliver feedback to me either in this thread or on GitHub:
https://github.com/haskellweekly/haskellweekly.github.io/issues/206

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Taylor Fausak wrote:
> 🎉 Hooray! That’s wonderful news! Thank you, Haskell.org committee, for
> supporting the survey.> 
> I plan on releasing this year’s results in the same fashion as
> last year.> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 5:31 AM, Jasper Van der Jeugt
>> <m at jaspervdj.be> wrote:>> 
>> Hi Taylor,
>> 
>> Yes, we're happy to support it from Haskell.org.
>> 
>> One additional ask from our side would be that the raw results are
>> published as well, but I saw in the issue you're already planning on>> doing that.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Jasper
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 11:18:30AM -0400, Taylor Fausak wrote:
>>> We’re one week out from the release of the survey. I plan on
>>> spending this weekend putting the finishing touches on it. Can I
>>> plan on announcing it as the official state of Haskell 2018 survey,
>>> supported by both Haskell Weekly and Haskell.org
>>> <http://haskell.org/>?>>> 
>>>> On Oct 17, 2018, at 7:00 PM, Jasper Van der Jeugt <m at jaspervdj.be>
>>>> wrote:>>>> 
>>>> Hi Taylor,
>>>> 
>>>> Just a small comment: I would like to keep the survey open a bit
>>>> longer -- I would suggest two weeks.  This gives us a bit more time
>>>> to push it out twice to as many channels as possible (once at the
>>>> start and a reminder after a week or so).  My intuition is that
>>>> we'll be able to gather significantly more responses that way.>>>> 
>>>> Thanks again for organizing this!
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jasper
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 00:55, Taylor Fausak <taylor at fausak.me
>>>> <mailto:taylor at fausak.me>> wrote:>>>> Thank you all for the wonderful feedback so far! I greatly
>>>> appreciate all of it.>>>> 
>>>> I didn’t mean to be exclusionary with my language before, and I
>>>> thank y’all for correcting me there. “We’re doing this together for
>>>> the benefit of all” is an excellent way to say what I’m shooting
>>>> for here.>>>> 
>>>> My goal for the survey is to be useful to many different groups of
>>>> people: the GHC team, library authors, application developers,
>>>> repository maintainers, prospective employees, hiring managers,
>>>> community organizers, and no doubt many more groups that I’m not
>>>> thinking of right now. I want to avoid results that are neat but
>>>> not useful. I also want to avoid results that simply throw fuel
>>>> onto common flame wars.>>>> 
>>>> Last year I announced the survey results and provided some
>>>> commentary. I suspect I’ll do something similar this year, although
>>>> reading your comments here makes me want to do less analyzing in
>>>> favor of simply publishing. I am not particularly adept at
>>>> analyzing survey results and am bound to make some rookie mistakes.
>>>> In fact, one of the reasons that I published the results last year
>>>> was so that someone who actually knew what they were doing could
>>>> slice and dice the data.>>>> 
>>>> As far as scheduling is concerned, I plan to keep the survey open
>>>> for a week, from November 1st to 7th. Publishing the results should
>>>> happen relatively quickly after that. I slowed myself down last
>>>> year by rendering a bunch of graphs, and even so I published on
>>>> November 15th.>>>> 
>>>> It sounds like the Haskell.org committee is broadly in favor of
>>>> backing the upcoming Haskell Weekly survey. Is that correct? In
>>>> either case, what are the next steps?>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 16, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Boespflug, Mathieu <m at tweag.io
>>>>> <mailto:m at tweag.io>> wrote:>>>>> 
>>>>> Since I was pinged up-thread, might as well chime in. If only
>>>>> to say>>>>> "I agree": selection bias is what it is. Taylor's efforts to
>>>>> come to>>>>> this committee are laudable. And really could help mitigate some
>>>>> issues we've seen with other surveys. Selection bias isn't
>>>>> something>>>>> worth agonizing over, provided we're careful to say in the
>>>>> analysis of>>>>> the results: "We found that X% of the respondents of this
>>>>> survey use>>>>> Y", not "X% of Haskell devs use Y".
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 21:02, Simon Peyton Jones via Haskell-
>>>>> community>>>>> <haskell-community at haskell.org <mailto:haskell-
>>>>> community at haskell.org>> wrote:>>>>>> 
>>>>>> | Hi Taylor. I like the way you pose things here: "I don't expect
>>>>>> | that>>>>>> | to remove selection bias, but it will let me (us, really) say:
>>>>>> | We're>>>>>> | doing this together for the benefit of all sides". I think
>>>>>> | that's a>>>>>> | better place to start from.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I like this too -- and like Gershom, I'd delete "sides".  We
>>>>>> aspire>>>>>> to work together, not on different sides.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> | earlier I've been thinking about a bit, where you wrote: "My
>>>>>> | goal is>>>>>> | for this survey to be *the* authoritative Haskell survey and
>>>>>> | for the>>>>>> | community to broadly accept it's results."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This sounds a bit too exclusive to me, and implicitly critical of
>>>>>> other>>>>>> work.  Better to stick to the positives: you simply want the
>>>>>> opinions of a broad constituency on a broad range of questions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> | Anyway, this is all a long-winded way of suggesting that it
>>>>>> | might be>>>>>> | good if the purpose of the survey was explicitly set out as
>>>>>> | trying to>>>>>> | inform developers of haskell libraries and tools (and
>>>>>> | educational>>>>>> | materials) regarding the systems their potential users work on
>>>>>> | and>>>>>> | develop, and their habits and practices in doing so, and where
>>>>>> | they>>>>>> | encounter difficulty. That is explicitly as a way of learning
>>>>>> | rather>>>>>> | than as any sort of horse-race or popularity contest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That sounds good to me -- but again in drafting the goals I'd
>>>>>> stick>>>>>> to the positives, and not speak about horse-races.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Simon
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>>>>>> <http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-community>>>>> 
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>>>> <http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-community>>>>> -- 
>>>> Jasper

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