[Haskell-cafe] When did it become so hard to install Haskell onWindows?

[Jack Kelly]

Dear Simon,

Thanks for your suggestion. I personally don't consider in-browser
solutions like repl.it suitable for this problem in this context, though
they definitely have value in other context. Major reason: many students
in this course will go on to complete an IT or CS major, which means
they have to grapple with this kind of thing at some point.

On a personal level, I am wary of browser-based or cloud-based
development environments as their acceptance accelerates the loss of
control users have over their own computers.

-- Jack

Simon Thompson <S.J.Thompson at kent.ac.uk> writes:

> Jack, a saviour for me is to suggest repl.it … all in the browser, so
> no installation at all. Beginners can begin with the language and not
> the installation :-)
>
> Simon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 25 Apr 2020, at 10:17, Jack Kelly <jack at jackkelly.name> wrote:
>> 
>> I appreciate that these things are standard tools for Windows
>> developers, but it's worth noting how much harder it can make things
>> for completely new people (either new developers or new to Windows).
>> 
>> At the start of the year, I prepared install instructions for university
>> students who would be using Haskell as part of a first year CS
>> course. We needed to use GHC 8.6.5 because certain libraries were not
>> available for GHC 8.8.x (their base upper bounds hadn't updated, which
>> ruled out haskell-dev), and tried to use Chocolatey as an experiment.
>> 
>> It was remarkably tough to get students set up on their own machines. I
>> was planning on recommending the Haskell Platform installer for Semester
>> 2 this year, and am disappointed to find that it no longer exists.
>> 
>> If it becomes too hard for students to install Haskell on their own
>> Windows machines, it may become too hard for us to use Haskell as an
>> educational tool, and I'd consider that a tragedy.
>> 
>> -- Jack
>> 
>> <lonetiger at gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi Pedro,
>>> 
>>> I’m the maintainer of those chocolatey packages.
>>> 
>>> ➢ First, I have to subscribe to a newsletter? Really? I guess this is
>>> entirely optional, but the instructions don't make it sound so.
>>> 
>>> Step 1 is completely optional and you don’t have to subscribe to any news letter.
>>> 
>>> ➢ Then I have to know what powershell.exe is, use an administrative prompt, and enter scary commands in it.
>>> 
>>> Powershell has been the standard shell in Windows for well over the
>>> past decade. Every single script from Microsoft or third parties come
>>> with powershell for automation.
>>> It’s understandable that you may not know it since your primary
>>> platform isn’t Windows. But it’s been included in every single Windows
>>> version for the past 13 years.
>>> 
>>> An administrative prompt is nothing different than running sudo or
>>> clicking on that installer that you *assumed* not to be scary because
>>> you didn’t see the actions it was performing.
>>> That scary looking command is nothing but a curl command allowing the
>>> one time execution of a script from a remote source. As in a script
>>> that’s not physically on your machine.
>>> 
>>> So what exactly makes this scary? Is it because
>>> 
>>> Set-ExecutionPolicy Bypass -Scope Process -Force;
>>> [System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol =
>>> [System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol -bor 3072; iex
>>> ((New-Object
>>> System.Net.WebClient).DownloadString('https://chocolatey.org/install.ps1'))
>>> 
>>> Is more verbose than
>>> 
>>> curl -sSL https://path.to.some.script/ | sh
>>> 
>>> or because the technologies used while completely standard on Windows aren’t known to the casual user?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tamar
>>> 
>>> From: José Pedro Magalhães
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 04:24
>>> To: haskell
>>> Subject: [Haskell-cafe] When did it become so hard to install Haskell onWindows?
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I haven't used Haskell in my personal computer in a while. I decided
>>> to install it again. I used the Haskell Platform in the past, so I
>>> went for that again - and a quick Google search on "install haskell
>>> windows" brings up the HP page, so I thought I was on the right track.
>>> 
>>> At the HP page for Windows, I'm greeted with this:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the past I'd just download an installer which would take care of
>>> things - now it seems to be more complicated. But fine, I followed the
>>> link to configure Chocolatey. That's where it starts getting really
>>> scary:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> First, I have to subscribe to a newsletter? Really? I guess this is
>>> entirely optional, but the instructions don't make it sound so. Then I
>>> have to know what powershell.exe is, use an administrative prompt, and
>>> enter scary commands in it.
>>> 
>>> I gave up at this stage. But going back to the HP page, it appears
>>> that even this wouldn't be enough, because I would still need to
>>> follow "the instructions at haskellstack.org to install stack". The
>>> link to haskellstack.org takes me to a 403 Forbidden.
>>> 
>>> I honestly don't want this to sound like a rant. I genuinely would
>>> like to understand why this multi-step, multi-tool, multi-website
>>> process was introduced, how it is superior to a single installer, and
>>> whether this is really the process we want newcomers to the language
>>> have to follow.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Pedro
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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