[Haskell-cafe] A Procedural-Functional Language (WIP)

Rik Howard rik at dcs.bbk.ac.uk
Sun Oct 23 22:12:14 UTC 2016


All -- thanks for the feedback: it has been thought-provoking and
enlightening.  There are some obvious deficiencies that can be addressed,
which is probably worth doing before further discussion.  Please feel free
to email me directly, otherwise I think I've taken enough space for the
meantime on this valuable thread.

Best, R.




On 23 October 2016 at 22:44, Rik Howard <rik at dcs.bbk.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi Sven
>
> thanks for the response.  Some examples will definitely be produced.  The
> syntax in the note is one that has been stripped down to support not much
> more than is needed for the note.  On reflection, this does not make for a
> good presentation.  A suggestion has been made to use the syntax of a
> standard reference to make easier a conceptual evaluation of the language.
> I think this could be a good way to clarify the ideas in the note; if they
> stand, a more-concrete (or practical) syntax could then be considered.  The
> example could certainly be done in Haskell and many other languages.  I'm
> not sure of the optimisation that you mention, so far the emphasis has been
> more on matters of semantics and, in the note, what effect the approach
> would have on a type system.  You may be right about the readability, some
> examples would be useful.  Coming soon!
>
> Best
> Rik
>
>
> On 23 October 2016 at 12:28, Sven SAULEAU <sven.sauleau at xtuc.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Seems interesting but I have difficulties to understand. Some concret
>> example would help.
>>
>> Your example could be done in Haskell using IO Monads.
>>
>> Wouldn’t procedures be inlined as a compilation optimisation in Haskell ?
>>
>> From my point of view your proposal will degrade code readability and
>> wouldn’t improve efficiency of the execution.
>>
>> As said earlier, I may have misunderstood. Feel free to correct me.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sven
>>
>> On 23 Oct 2016, at 10:52, Rik Howard <rik at dcs.bbk.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Richard
>>
>> thank you for your reply.  It is becoming apparent that my explanation
>> can be made clearer.  I'm investigating a language that takes something
>> like core Haskell (a Lambda Calculus augmented with let blocks) to satisfy
>> its pure function requirements but that takes a different approach when it
>> comes to IO by employing procedures.
>>
>> For IO, a procedure returns only 'okay' or an error via the mechanism
>> that a function would use for returning values; the non-deterministic
>> values returned by the procedure are done so with variable parameters.  For
>> example, to define a procedure to echo once from standard in to out:
>>
>>     echo = try (read string) (write string) error
>>
>> The value coming from standard-in is to be captured in the 'string'
>> out-variable and so is available to be written to standard-out, the 'try'
>> built-in being analogous to 'if'.
>>
>> Rough (inconsistent) examples exist; its grammar and type system are in a
>> slightly better state but not yet written up properly.  What I could
>> quickly add as an appendix, I have but the notation needs to be made more
>> standard for easier comparison.  I am working on another paper that will
>> address the need for a more-concrete and standard presentation.  I hope
>> that this goes some way to answering your questions; please say if it
>> doesn't!
>>
>> Rik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 October 2016 at 20:35, Richard Eisenberg <rae at cs.brynmawr.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rik,
>>>
>>> I'm unsure what to make of your proposal, as it's hard for me to glean
>>> out what you're proposing. Do you have some sample programs written in your
>>> proposed language? What is the language's grammar? What is its type system
>>> (stated in terms of inference rules)? Having these concrete descriptors of
>>> the language would be very helpful in assessing this work.
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> On Oct 22, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Rik Howard <rik at dcs.bbk.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Haskell Cafe Subscribers
>>>
>>> on the recommendation of someone for whom I have great respect, I have
>>> just subscribed to this list, it having been suggested as being a good
>>> place for me to get feedback regarding a project that I have been working
>>> on.  I am humbled by the level of discussion and it feels to be a very bold
>>> step for me to request anybody's time for my words.
>>>
>>> The linked document is a four-page work-in-progress summary: the length
>>> being stipulated, potential novelty being the other main requirement.
>>> Given the requirements, the summary necessarily glosses over some details
>>> and is not yet, I fear, completely correct.  The conclusion is, more or
>>> less, the one at which I am aiming; the properties are, more or less, the
>>> ones that are needed.
>>>
>>> http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/~rik/gallery/work-in-progress/document.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> The work arises from an investigation into functional programming syntax
>>> and semantics.  The novelty seems to be there but there is too a question
>>> as to whether it is simply a gimmick.  I try to suggest that it is not but,
>>> by that stage, there have been many assumptions so it is hard to be sure
>>> whether the suggestion is valid.  If anyone has any comments, questions or
>>> suggestions, they would be gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely
>>> Rik Howard
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Sven SAULEAU - Xtuc*
>>
>>
>>
>> Développeur Web
>>
>> contact at xtuc.fr
>>
>> 06 28 69 51 44
>>
>> www.xtuc.fr
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/svensauleau
>>
>
>
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