[Haskell-cafe] Poll & plea: State of GUI & graphics libraries in Haskell

Wed Oct 2 20:21:27 UTC 2013

No. GLFW does not give you any UI elements, just basic windowing and
input handling.

Euterpea has a UI layer on top of GLFW that provides text boxes and
sliders, etc, entirely written in Haskell.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Conal Elliott <conal at conal.net> wrote:
> Hi Paul. Is there a way to use GLFW with GUI elements other than OpenGL
> display windows, e.g., text boxes and sliders?  -- Conal
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Paul Liu <ninegua at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. I've just built GHC HEAD on Mac OS X Lion, and tested by
>> installing libraries with --enable-shared and loading a GLFW program
>> into GHCi. Using ghci -fno-ghci-sandbox, everything works great
>> including closing and restarting GL window multiple times. Can't wait
>> for the  official release of GHC 7.8!
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Carter Schonwald
>> <carter.schonwald at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > thats the linker bug.
>> >
>> > the glfw stuff has been tested on ghc HEAD / 7.7 by folks on
>> > #haskell-game
>> > in recent memory. GHCI + foreign libs should work fine now (modulo
>> > thread
>> > local storage related thing).
>> >
>> > the historical element doesn't matter any more.
>> >
>> > To the best of my knowledge, all such issues should be gone. Anyone who
>> > cares about making sure GHCI+ gui libs play nice, PLEASE test with HEAD.
>> >
>> > the better this issue is properly tested (which i believe it has been),
>> > the
>> > more we can actually prevent it from happening. This requires people to
>> > test
>> > with HEAD GHCi now, rather than doing archaeology.
>> >
>> > anyone who cares, please play with GHCI in HEAD. If your lib doesn't
>> > work
>> > with ghci, please report a bug. It would be a new bug because it wont'
>> > be
>> > the previous reasons it hasnt' worked.
>> >
>> >
>> > tl;dr to the best of my knowledge this issue is resolved in HEAD. Test
>> > HEAD.
>> > Help us make sure it stays resolved by testing HEAD.
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > -Carter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Paul Liu <ninegua at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I reported a problem with statically linked GLFW library on Mac OS X
>> >> Lion in this thread:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2012-January/097355.html
>> >>
>> >> I do not know why this is broken on Mac OS X Lion, but not on Linux or
>> >> Windows. There was an EnableGUI hack for GHC 7.2 (and previous
>> >> versions) and OS X version before Lion, but it no longer works. So I'm
>> >> not sure if it is OS X Lion, or GLFW, or GHC, or a combination of them
>> >> that caused this problem.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Paul Liu
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Carter Schonwald
>> >> <carter.schonwald at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hey simon, the two issues that have recurrently bit ghci interaction
>> >> > with
>> >> > foreign GUI libs are
>> >> > 1) the ghci linker.  This is fixed in head by now having ghci use the
>> >> > system
>> >> > linker
>> >> > 2) some GUI libs require thread local state, and ghci has a flag for
>> >> > that
>> >> > 3)  I'm not aware of anyone reporting newly broken libs wrt GUI
>> >> > bindings
>> >> > when 7.6 rolled out.  The only fix that's relevant to 7.8 is the
>> >> > dylinker
>> >> > bit, but that would have been a problem historically too.
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe a number of folks in #haskell-game have recently tested
>> >> > point
>> >> > one.
>> >> > (Though I should ask to double check)
>> >> >
>> >> > At the very least, I'm not aware of hearing of such a 7.6 specific
>> >> > ghci
>> >> > breakage before.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tuesday, October 1, 2013, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear GHC devs
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> See below (in red).  I do not know the details of this, but it
>> >> >> sounds
>> >> >> like
>> >> >> a pretty serious problem, and it used to work.  Is whatever-it-is
>> >> >> confirmed
>> >> >> fixed in 7.8?  Do we have a test that?ll trip if it breaks again?
>> >> >> (I?m
>> >> >> guessing that the latter might be hard.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Simon
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Haskell-Cafe [mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org] On
>> >> >> Behalf
>> >> >> Of
>> >> >> Paul Liu
>> >> >> Sent: 30 September 2013 07:18
>> >> >> To: Conal Elliott
>> >> >> Cc: Haskell Cafe
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Poll & plea: State of GUI & graphics
>> >> >> libraries
>> >> >> in Haskell
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Conal,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I wasn't able to make it to last Saturday's FARM track, but I think
>> >> >>
>> >> >> there was a good chance that Paul would have demonstrated his
>> >> >> Euterpea
>> >> >>
>> >> >> music library, which includes a GUI interface (called MUI) written
>> >> >> on
>> >> >>
>> >> >> top of GLFW. I wrote its initial implementation (around 2009?) with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >>
>> >> >> monadic interface that let you wire together UI components with
>> >> >>
>> >> >> signals (I believe Dan later wrote an arrow interface, but I could
>> >> >> be
>> >> >>
>> >> >> wrong). It was actually inspired by the ideas behind your Phooey UI
>> >> >>
>> >> >> library. It should be very easy to extract this part out as a
>> >> >>
>> >> >> standalone package if there is enough interest.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The only issue with it (and all other UI libraries) is that it
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >>
>> >> >> play nicely in GHCi. It used to work pretty well with GHC 7.2 and
>> >> >> 7.4
>> >> >>
>> >> >> on almost all platforms (Mac needs an extra hack), but GHC 7.6 broke
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mac (and perhaps Windows too). GHC 7.8 supposedly should fix this
>> >> >>
>> >> >> problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, as also the author of the GLFW library on HackageDB, I've done
>> >> >>
>> >> >> barely minimal to keep this Haskell binding afloat. I'm actually
>> >> >>
>> >> >> leaning towards GLFW-b library, which is better maintained, and
>> >> >>
>> >> >> provides similar binding for GLFW C library but with a saner
>> >> >> interface
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (no dependency on the OpenGL library, for example). If you don't
>> >> >> need
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the two extra things that GLFW does (choice of either dynamic or
>> >> >>
>> >> >> static linking to GLFW C, and an embedded bitmap font), I suggest
>> >> >> you
>> >> >>
>> >> >> try out GLFW-b if you are only looking for a think graphics layer
>> >> >> with
>> >> >>
>> >> >> input+window+OpenGL.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The only thing keeping GLFW-b from becoming a good foundation for a
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pure Haskell UI lib is IMHO the lack of a light-weight,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> cross-platform, and full-featured font rendering solution. I believe
>> >> >>
>> >> >> many other libraries (including Diagram) are having the same
>> >> >> problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Conal Elliott <conal at conal.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I'm polling to see whether there are will and expertise to reboot
>> >> >> > graphics
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > and GUIs work in Haskell. I miss working on functional graphics
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > GUIs
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Haskell, as I've been blocked for several years (eight?) due to
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > absence
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > of low-level foundation libraries having the following properties:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > * cross-platform,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > * easily buildable,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > * GHCi-friendly, and
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > * OpenGL-compatible.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > The last several times I tried Gtk2hs, I was unable to compile it
>> >> >> > on
>> >> >> > my
>> >> >> > Mac.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Years ago when I was able to compile, the GUIs looked and
>> >> >> > interacted
>> >> >> > like a
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Linux app, which made them awkward and upleasant to use. wxHaskell
>> >> >> > (whose
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > API and visual appearance I prefered) has for years been
>> >> >> > incompatible
>> >> >> > with
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > GHCi, in that the second time I open a top-level window, the host
>> >> >> > process
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > (GHCi) dies abruptly. Since my GUI & graphics programs are often
>> >> >> > one-liners,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > and I tend to experiment a lot, using a full compilation greatly
>> >> >> > thwarts
>> >> >> > my
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > flow. For many years, I've thought that the situation would
>> >> >> > eventually
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > improve, since I'm far from the only person who wants GUIs or
>> >> >> > graphics
>> >> >> > from
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Haskell.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > About three years ago, I built a modern replacement of my old Pan
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > V
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > ghc-devs mailing list
>> >> > ghc-devs at haskell.org
>> >> > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Paul Liu
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Paul Liu
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>> ghc-devs at haskell.org
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>
>

-- 
Regards,
Paul Liu