[Haskell-cafe] Re: MonadCatchIO, finally and the error monad
michael at snoyman.com
Mon Oct 18 08:50:23 EDT 2010
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Paolo Losi <paolo.losi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for you reply, Michael.
> See inline ...
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Michael Snoyman
>> > As an haskell newbie, I've got some questions on this matter.
>> > Is it using ErrorT instead of extensible exeptions really necessary?
>> > I've read your comment stating that we cannot pass function arguments
>> > to Exceptions because of the Show class constraint.
>> > But is that really limiting? Wouldn't your use case (e.g.
>> > HTTP redirection in Yesod) be implementable with extensible exceptions?
>> > I would guess that the rule of thumb would be not to mix
>> > extensible exception and ErrorT whenever it is possibile.
>> > I've quickly read your post on inverting transformer stacks
>> > and, from my newbie point of view, I feel that the extra complexity
>> > isn't worth the gain.
>> I'm not sure why you think inverting the ErrorT monad is more
>> complicated than MonadCatchIO: they're both doing basically the same
>> thing. The difference is that MonadInvertIO does this generically for
>> a whole class of functions, and therefore does it right.
> I could have written MonadCatchIO, I could not have written InvertIO :-)
The typeclass itself is simple. It's the *instances* that are
complicated. At least I find InvertIO to be not much more complicated
on the instance side.
>> Anyway, it *is* theoretically possible to use extensible exceptions
>> anywhere you would use ErrorT, but there's always a runtime hit in
>> using runtime exceptions. Also, it's a difference in philosophy:
>> coming from a language like Python or Ruby, it may feel natural to use
>> exceptions for these kinds of cases. In Haskell, we try to make
>> exceptions respect their name, and only use them in exceptional
> Is the performance penalty of using runtime exception so high?
> I would sacrifice some bits of performance for a more consistent
> error reporting / flow control.
> For the argument that Exceptions are for exceptional cases
> I'm totally with David MacIver .
> I perfectly see the point of using ErrorT, but not when you need to
> handle runtime exceptions as well.
> As an haskell newbie I think that _THIS_, error handling strategies,
> is the single most troublesome point where some consistency
> (at least as a best practice) is really needed.
> I had hopes that extensible execptions could clarify the issue raised
> by  at least in "new" code...
The point here is that we want to treat these things very differently.
Just take a look at the runHandler code in the Yesod.Handler module:
runtime exceptions need to be wrapped up in an internal server error,
whereas "Left" values from the ErrorT get "case"d on. I understand
that all of this could be done with extensible exceptions, but that's
really just taking something which is currently explicit and
type-checkable and making it implicit. It really does seem to me to be
a typical dynamic-versus-static issue.
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