[Haskell-cafe] web servers

S. Alexander Jacobson alex at alexjacobson.com
Sat Apr 15 15:05:22 EDT 2006


> I'd also be interested in a system that handled overlapped asynchronous requests
> in a fashion not dissimilar to Twisted [5].

I see you just saw the HAppS announcement.  You'll appreciate that 
HAppS was actually inspired by Twisted (and Prevayler).

> over time.  It seems to me that the sequencing of asynchronous operations is
> very much like threading computations in a monad, and that the higher-order
> functions on monads could also be used for composition of asynchronous
> operations.

Yup you got it.  The two big issues are ACID semantics (for any 
server) and handling of side effects.  HAppS does write ahead logging 
and checkpointing to give you the ACID stuff and provides 
infrastructure so you can guarantee at-least-once execution of side 
effects.

As for "web dispatching", the application model in HAppS is to help 
you separate state, application logic, wire formats, protocols, and 
presentation layer:

   * State

     State is just a haskell data type you define.  ACID Consistency
     enforced by Haskell's type system.  ACID Durability is handled by
     MACID write-ahead logging and checkpointing.

   * Application

     Incoming events are gathered in individual haskell threads and
     then pushed onto a single application queue for processing.  The
     queue model gives you ACID Atomicity and Isolation and lets your
     app be simply a set of functions with types like:

         SomeInputType -> MACID SomeOutputType

     The MACID monad lets you update your state and *schedule*
     side-effects.  To be clear, MACID is not in the IO monad so you
     cannot execute sideeffects, you can only schedule them.  The
     framework takes care of making sure they are executed
     at-least-once (if they can be completed by a deadline you
     specify).

   * Wire Formats

     Since your app consists of a set of functions with various haskell
     input and output types, somewhere you need a place to convert
     between those internal haskell types and external protocol event
     types; e.g. from URLEncoded HTTP requests to SomeInputType and
     from SomeOutputType to XML encoded HTTP responses.

   * Protocols

     HAppS currently provides support for HTTP Requests/Responses and
     SMTP Envelopes.  To be clear HApps provides ACID Atomicity at the
     protocol event level.  So if you write a protocol with SMTP
     envelopes being the arriving event type then your app will have
     atomicity in processing incoming SMTP envelopes.  If you write a
     protocol with SMTP commands being the arriving event type, then
     your app will have atomicity at the level of individual smtp
     commands.

   * Presentation

     If your application outputs XML as its wire format, HAppS provides
     a lot of support for using XSLT to transform it for presentation
     purposes.  For example, you can send XML mail and HAppS will take
     care of applying the relevant XSLT stylesheet before it is
     delivered.  If you output XML HTTP responses, HAppS takes care of
     applying the XSLT stylesheet server side for user-agents that
     don't support doing so on the client.  The value here is that you
     can have designer types who know XSLT modify presentation stuff
     without touching your application code.

-Alex-


______________________________________________________________
S. Alexander Jacobson tel:917-770-6565 http://alexjacobson.com


On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Graham Klyne wrote:

> I'm interested, but I don't have the time to look right now (or in the next
> couple of months, as far as I can see).
>
> What would really interest me is a system that can provide the functionality of
> the Python packages I currently use (TurboGears [1], of which the web
> server/controller component is CherryPy [2]).  There's also some interesting
> recent CherryPy-related discussion about web dispatching that I think could
> translate very well to Haskell [3][4].
>
> ...
>
> I'd also be interested in a system that handled overlapped asynchronous requests
> in a fashion not dissimilar to Twisted [5].  I've very recently been playing
> with Twisted as a way to deal with large numbers of overlapping lightweight
> requests without having large numbers of active threads.  Twisted requires one
> to string together asynchronous callbacks to assemble a process that completes
> over time.  It seems to me that the sequencing of asynchronous operations is
> very much like threading computations in a monad, and that the higher-order
> functions on monads could also be used for composition of asynchronous
> operations.  I just implemented a "sequence" function for Twisted operations
> whose implementation started to feel very like "foldr".
>
> This can't be new, and I'm wondering if there is any interesting work out there
> on using monads for multiple asynchronous I/O operations.  (And, much as I'd
> love to use Haskell for this, is there work that would translate cleanly to Python?)
>
> #g
> --
>
> [1] http://www.turbogears.com/
>
> [2] http://www.cherrypy.org/
>
> [3] http://pythonpaste.org/do-it-yourself-framework.html
>    (cf. descriptions of object publishing)
>
> [4] The above link was posted in this discussion thread:
> http://groups.google.com/group/cherrypy-users/browse_frm/thread/47035d8d78adad69/bf02b489e45ce6c5?tvc=1&hl=en#bf02b489e45ce6c5
>
> [5] http://twistedmatrix.com/
>    http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/
>
>
>
> Daniel McAllansmith wrote:
>> Following is a message I sent yesterday, sans attachment.  Looks like the code
>> was too bloated to get through under the list size limit.
>>
>> As I say in the original message , I'm keen for any feedback.  So let me know
>> if anyone wants the actual code (20 KB, compressed) to have a look through.
>>
>> Cheerio
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> On Sunday 09 April 2006 06:24, Tim Newsham wrote:
>>> I found a copy of Simon Marlow's HWS on haskell.org's cvs
>>> server.  I know there's a newer plugin version, but I cant find a working
>>> link to the actual code.
>>
>> There's this link: http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md9ms/hws-wp/
>>> From memory I think there may have been a more recent version at
>> scannedinavian.org (possibly only accessible with darcs?), but still a couple
>> of years with no apparent activity.
>>
>>> Besides HWS, what other web servers exist?  Does anyone actually use a
>>> haskell based web server in practice?  Which web server is considered the
>>> most mature?  stable?  fastest?
>>>
>>> I'm trying to decided if I should sink some time into HWS or if I should
>>> use another server.
>>
>> Several months ago I had a bit of play-time available which I spent on writing
>> a HTTP server in Haskell.
>> The goal was a HTTP 1.1 compliant server that could be embedded in a Haskell
>> app, be reconfigured on the fly and have different request handlers
>> added/removed.
>> I did have a quick look at HWS before I started but I seem to recall it was
>> pretty basic (in terms of the amount of the HTTP spec. implemented).
>>
>> In any event, I started from scratch.  It's certainly not finished, and it's
>> the very first thing I wrote with Haskell so it's a bit of a dogs breakfast,
>> but it might be of interest.
>> There's lots that needs doing but it should just be a case of writing a
>> request handler to get it doing _something_ useful.
>>
>>
>> It's always been my intention to get back to it, clean it up a bit/lot and
>> release it under a more liberal licence (currently 'all rights reserved'),
>> but have had little time available.
>> Eventually I hope to actually use it in anger.
>>
>> If anyone is interested in using it, contributing to it, or picking over it
>> for use in an existing project, I'll try and find somewhere stable to host it
>> and change the licence.
>> Feel free to ask questions on what it does/doesn't do.  You'll probably need
>> to, given the documentation ;-)
>>
>>
>> Regardless of it's utility, any criticism or advice on the code would be
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Daniel
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>>
>
> -- 
> Graham Klyne
> For email:
> http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact
>
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