From adam at well-typed.com Tue Jul 16 07:19:09 2024 From: adam at well-typed.com (Adam Gundry) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:19:09 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline Message-ID: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> Dear Committee, Brandon Chinn proposes to amend the multiline string literal proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 I'd like to nominate Eric Seidel as the shepherd, since he was the shepherd of #569. Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process Cheers, Adam -- Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England From moritz.angermann at gmail.com Tue Jul 23 07:24:08 2024 From: moritz.angermann at gmail.com (Moritz Angermann) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 16:24:08 +0900 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker Message-ID: Dear Committee members, I'd like to bring the following tweet (thread) from Matt to your attention: https://x.com/mattoflambda/status/1815536812376707224 It concerns pull request: Allow reserved identifiers as fields in `OverloadedRecordDot` by parsonsmatt · Pull Request #668 · ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals (github.com) . We do not seem to be as welcoming as we could/should be? My stance in general around this is probably a bit old fashioned, and what I learned on IRC back then: not to fuel and engage with negative behavior. I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. Best, Moritz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon.peytonjones at gmail.com Tue Jul 23 07:36:27 2024 From: simon.peytonjones at gmail.com (Simon Peyton Jones) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 08:36:27 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. I am very concerned when conversations stray outside the Haskell Foundation Guidelines for Respectful Communication. But I am often very unsure what to do about it. In this case, though, it doesn't look terrible. Matt is clearly saying (albeit in rather intemperate language) that he feels unwelcome, but actually the thread does not look bad. Some people supporting, some suggesting caution ("that might be dangerously close to a typo") and some (IMHO totally unjustified) sarcasm ("Oh, hang on ... is the date April 1st where you are?"). How does it come over to all of you? Any advice or suggestions? Anyway, I'll write to Mike. Thanks for flagging it Moritz. Simon On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 at 08:24, Moritz Angermann wrote: > Dear Committee members, > > I'd like to bring the following tweet (thread) from Matt to your attention: > https://x.com/mattoflambda/status/1815536812376707224 > > It concerns pull request: Allow reserved identifiers as fields in > `OverloadedRecordDot` by parsonsmatt · Pull Request #668 · > ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals (github.com) > . > > We do not seem to be as welcoming as we could/should be? > > My stance in general around this is probably a bit old fashioned, and > what I learned on IRC back then: not to fuel and engage with negative > behavior. > > I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. > > Best, > Moritz > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgraf1337 at gmail.com Tue Jul 23 09:16:28 2024 From: sgraf1337 at gmail.com (Sebastian Graf) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 11:16:28 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What I found quite derailing upon reading the very first comment was that it raises two non-issues: 1. that the proposal should generalise to more keywords than just `type` (it does!) 2. that the proposed change could somehow make typos valid programs (it does not; .type must be surrounded by parens (.type), and such a typo would likely trigger a syntax error *even if* -XOverloadedRecordDot was active) Reading such troll-ish posts (even if the author did not mean to troll) often triggers a strong urge in me to reply to correct these perceived misconceptions. Soon I'm not the only one replying. The troll (by perceived function, not by self-declaration) keeps on fueling the discussion with ever new contentious material, at which point the discussion has been successfully derailed. Everyone participating in the discussion *feels* like they are helping, but in reality they are sadly just providing more fuel. I do not know enough about moderation practices to emphatically suggest a solution. Of course it helps if the committee itself does not engage with trolls, but there are many other people with a GitHub account who might still engage (and they do!). In the present case, the proposal author engaged with the troll as well. That highlights an important issue: *The proposal author is supposed to defend their proposal against critique, and rebut any which is invalid.* In other words: *it might seem like it is the job* of the proposal author to engage with trolls. (Of course, ultimately only critique from the committee needs addressing, but I think it's "good practice" to rebut early.) If I was a proposal author and the troll accepted a rebuttal as an invitation for more inflammatory discussion that went un-moderated, I would be upset about the experience. I think that is what happened here. Curiously, I don't see a direct violation of any HF Guideline as I interpret them, but to me it feels like the whole discussion was started by the troll in bad faith. Am Di., 23. Juli 2024 um 09:36 Uhr schrieb Simon Peyton Jones < simon.peytonjones at gmail.com>: > I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. > > > I am very concerned when conversations stray outside the Haskell > Foundation Guidelines for Respectful Communication. > > But I am often very unsure what to do about it. > > In this case, though, it doesn't look terrible. Matt is clearly saying > (albeit in rather intemperate language) that he feels unwelcome, but > actually the thread does not look bad. Some people supporting, some > suggesting caution ("that might be dangerously close to a typo") and some > (IMHO totally unjustified) sarcasm ("Oh, hang on ... is the date April 1st > where you are?"). > > How does it come over to all of you? Any advice or suggestions? > > Anyway, I'll write to Mike. Thanks for flagging it Moritz. > > Simon > > > > On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 at 08:24, Moritz Angermann > wrote: > >> Dear Committee members, >> >> I'd like to bring the following tweet (thread) from Matt to your >> attention: >> https://x.com/mattoflambda/status/1815536812376707224 >> >> It concerns pull request: Allow reserved identifiers as fields in >> `OverloadedRecordDot` by parsonsmatt · Pull Request #668 · >> ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals (github.com) >> . >> >> We do not seem to be as welcoming as we could/should be? >> >> My stance in general around this is probably a bit old fashioned, and >> what I learned on IRC back then: not to fuel and engage with negative >> behavior. >> >> I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. >> >> Best, >> Moritz >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jakob.bruenker at gmail.com Wed Jul 24 20:50:54 2024 From: jakob.bruenker at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Jakob_Br=C3=BCnker?=) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 22:50:54 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Curiously, I don't see a direct violation of any HF Guideline as I interpret them I think it does go against the " We strive to be scrupulously polite at all times." point, though of course that's somewhat subjective. But since the HF Guidelines don't actually pertain directly to the GHC proposal discussions, perhaps a good first step would be to actually create a code of conduct that is stated to apply to participants in these discussions, so that we have something concrete to point to. This could be more or less a copy of the HF guidelines. (Though I would prefer doing something more than just* referring to* the HF Guidelines; that would seem confusing since it specifically states that it applies to members of a Haskell commitee, rather than discussion participants.) On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 11:16 AM Sebastian Graf wrote: > What I found quite derailing upon reading the very first comment was that > it raises two non-issues: > > 1. that the proposal should generalise to more keywords than just > `type` (it does!) > 2. that the proposed change could somehow make typos valid programs > (it does not; .type must be surrounded by parens (.type), and such a typo > would likely trigger a syntax error *even if* -XOverloadedRecordDot was > active) > > Reading such troll-ish posts (even if the author did not mean to troll) > often triggers a strong urge in me to reply to correct these perceived > misconceptions. > Soon I'm not the only one replying. The troll (by perceived function, not > by self-declaration) keeps on fueling the discussion with ever new > contentious material, at which point the discussion has been successfully > derailed. > Everyone participating in the discussion *feels* like they are helping, > but in reality they are sadly just providing more fuel. > > I do not know enough about moderation practices to emphatically suggest a > solution. > Of course it helps if the committee itself does not engage with trolls, > but there are many other people with a GitHub account who might still > engage (and they do!). > In the present case, the proposal author engaged with the troll as well. > > That highlights an important issue: *The proposal author is supposed to > defend their proposal against critique, and rebut any which is invalid.* > In other words: *it might seem like it is the job* of the proposal author > to engage with trolls. > (Of course, ultimately only critique from the committee needs addressing, > but I think it's "good practice" to rebut early.) > If I was a proposal author and the troll accepted a rebuttal as an > invitation for more inflammatory discussion that went un-moderated, I would > be upset about the experience. > I think that is what happened here. Curiously, I don't see a direct > violation of any HF Guideline as I interpret them, but to me it feels like > the whole discussion was started by the troll in bad faith. > > Am Di., 23. Juli 2024 um 09:36 Uhr schrieb Simon Peyton Jones < > simon.peytonjones at gmail.com>: > >> I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. >> >> >> I am very concerned when conversations stray outside the Haskell >> Foundation Guidelines for Respectful Communication. >> >> But I am often very unsure what to do about it. >> >> In this case, though, it doesn't look terrible. Matt is clearly saying >> (albeit in rather intemperate language) that he feels unwelcome, but >> actually the thread does not look bad. Some people supporting, some >> suggesting caution ("that might be dangerously close to a typo") and some >> (IMHO totally unjustified) sarcasm ("Oh, hang on ... is the date April 1st >> where you are?"). >> >> How does it come over to all of you? Any advice or suggestions? >> >> Anyway, I'll write to Mike. Thanks for flagging it Moritz. >> >> Simon >> >> >> >> On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 at 08:24, Moritz Angermann < >> moritz.angermann at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Committee members, >>> >>> I'd like to bring the following tweet (thread) from Matt to your >>> attention: >>> https://x.com/mattoflambda/status/1815536812376707224 >>> >>> It concerns pull request: Allow reserved identifiers as fields in >>> `OverloadedRecordDot` by parsonsmatt · Pull Request #668 · >>> ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals (github.com) >>> . >>> >>> We do not seem to be as welcoming as we could/should be? >>> >>> My stance in general around this is probably a bit old fashioned, and >>> what I learned on IRC back then: not to fuel and engage with negative >>> behavior. >>> >>> I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. >>> >>> Best, >>> Moritz >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon.peytonjones at gmail.com Thu Jul 25 07:19:49 2024 From: simon.peytonjones at gmail.com (Simon Peyton Jones) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 08:19:49 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #652: Import shadowing In-Reply-To: <87ba8738-761f-4d39-8677-0486bd83358f@well-typed.com> References: <87ba8738-761f-4d39-8677-0486bd83358f@well-typed.com> Message-ID: Erik, Adam assigned this to you on 26 June, and usually we'd expect a recommendation from the shepherd within a week, or two at most. But I don't think we've heard from you. Could you drive us towards a timely conclusion? I don't this this is a controversial one. Thanks! Simon On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 20:50, Adam Gundry wrote: > Dear Committee, > > Gergő Érdi proposes to allow local binders to shadow names defined in > outer scopes: > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/652 > > https://github.com/gergoerdi/ghc-proposals/blob/mu/import-shadowing/proposals/0000-import-shadowing.rst > > I'd like to nominate Erik de Castro Lopo as the shepherd. > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > Cheers, > > Adam > > > -- > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malte.ott at maralorn.de Thu Jul 25 07:34:57 2024 From: malte.ott at maralorn.de (Malte Ott) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 09:34:57 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3momrckckzry3eu3d67yr3mzvx63hzr7dl2yyjplz2xvx2az6z@hera.m-0.eu> > How does it come over to all of you? Any advice or suggestions? The indidividual in question is a very active participant in SC discussions for years. While their posts often contain relevant technical insight, while no single post in itself is obviously terrible, most of the least friendly posts in those discussions over those years are from them. It was always my hope, that other participants regard this as an outlier and are able to ignore it, but that is obviously a naive hope and also generally not how people evaluate the behaviour of "a community". I would very much hope that we don’t need to go in the direction of enforcement here, because that is generally a loose-loose situation. On the other hand the GHC Proposals process is already quite daunting for a lot of people (I also notice that we are currently not being flooded with a lot of proposals.) and I would love for it to be as welcoming as possible. Hopefully more appeals to that and being more vocal about less then excellent communication going forward can help with that. Best, Malte From simon.peytonjones at gmail.com Thu Jul 25 07:48:40 2024 From: simon.peytonjones at gmail.com (Simon Peyton Jones) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 08:48:40 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: But since the HF Guidelines don't actually pertain directly to the GHC proposal discussions, perhaps a good first step would be to actually create a code of conduct that is stated to apply to participants in these discussions, so that we have something concrete to point to. This could be more or less a copy of the HF guidelines. (Though I would prefer doing something more than just* referring to* the HF Guidelines; that would seem confusing since it specifically states that it applies to members of a Haskell commitee, rather than discussion participants.) I agree -- I'd like our main proposals process page to explicitly refer to the HF guidelines. I don't want to write new guidelines! I don't think we need to modify the HF ones except to say (on our page) that we expect contributors (not just committee members) to our GitHub to adhere to them. Our GitHub is our walled garden, and we can state requirements for participation. (Is it technically possible to prevent particular people posting on GitHub?) Simon On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 at 21:51, Jakob Brünker wrote: > > Curiously, I don't see a direct violation of any HF Guideline as I > interpret them > > I think it does go against the " We strive to be scrupulously polite at > all times." point, though of course that's somewhat subjective. > > But since the HF Guidelines don't actually pertain directly to the GHC > proposal discussions, perhaps a good first step would be to actually create > a code of conduct that is stated to apply to participants in these > discussions, so that we have something concrete to point to. This could be > more or less a copy of the HF guidelines. (Though I would prefer doing > something more than just* referring to* the HF Guidelines; that would > seem confusing since it specifically states that it applies to members of a > Haskell commitee, rather than discussion participants.) > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 11:16 AM Sebastian Graf > wrote: > >> What I found quite derailing upon reading the very first comment was that >> it raises two non-issues: >> >> 1. that the proposal should generalise to more keywords than just >> `type` (it does!) >> 2. that the proposed change could somehow make typos valid programs >> (it does not; .type must be surrounded by parens (.type), and such a typo >> would likely trigger a syntax error *even if* -XOverloadedRecordDot was >> active) >> >> Reading such troll-ish posts (even if the author did not mean to troll) >> often triggers a strong urge in me to reply to correct these perceived >> misconceptions. >> Soon I'm not the only one replying. The troll (by perceived function, not >> by self-declaration) keeps on fueling the discussion with ever new >> contentious material, at which point the discussion has been successfully >> derailed. >> Everyone participating in the discussion *feels* like they are helping, >> but in reality they are sadly just providing more fuel. >> >> I do not know enough about moderation practices to emphatically suggest a >> solution. >> Of course it helps if the committee itself does not engage with trolls, >> but there are many other people with a GitHub account who might still >> engage (and they do!). >> In the present case, the proposal author engaged with the troll as well. >> >> That highlights an important issue: *The proposal author is supposed to >> defend their proposal against critique, and rebut any which is invalid.* >> In other words: *it might seem like it is the job* of the proposal author >> to engage with trolls. >> (Of course, ultimately only critique from the committee needs addressing, >> but I think it's "good practice" to rebut early.) >> If I was a proposal author and the troll accepted a rebuttal as an >> invitation for more inflammatory discussion that went un-moderated, I would >> be upset about the experience. >> I think that is what happened here. Curiously, I don't see a direct >> violation of any HF Guideline as I interpret them, but to me it feels like >> the whole discussion was started by the troll in bad faith. >> >> Am Di., 23. Juli 2024 um 09:36 Uhr schrieb Simon Peyton Jones < >> simon.peytonjones at gmail.com>: >> >>> I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. >>> >>> >>> I am very concerned when conversations stray outside the Haskell >>> Foundation Guidelines for Respectful Communication. >>> >>> But I am often very unsure what to do about it. >>> >>> In this case, though, it doesn't look terrible. Matt is clearly saying >>> (albeit in rather intemperate language) that he feels unwelcome, but >>> actually the thread does not look bad. Some people supporting, some >>> suggesting caution ("that might be dangerously close to a typo") and some >>> (IMHO totally unjustified) sarcasm ("Oh, hang on ... is the date April 1st >>> where you are?"). >>> >>> How does it come over to all of you? Any advice or suggestions? >>> >>> Anyway, I'll write to Mike. Thanks for flagging it Moritz. >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 at 08:24, Moritz Angermann < >>> moritz.angermann at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Committee members, >>>> >>>> I'd like to bring the following tweet (thread) from Matt to your >>>> attention: >>>> https://x.com/mattoflambda/status/1815536812376707224 >>>> >>>> It concerns pull request: Allow reserved identifiers as fields in >>>> `OverloadedRecordDot` by parsonsmatt · Pull Request #668 · >>>> ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals (github.com) >>>> . >>>> >>>> We do not seem to be as welcoming as we could/should be? >>>> >>>> My stance in general around this is probably a bit old fashioned, and >>>> what I learned on IRC back then: not to fuel and engage with negative >>>> behavior. >>>> >>>> I'm curious what the other committee members think about this. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Moritz >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malte.ott at maralorn.de Thu Jul 25 08:13:57 2024 From: malte.ott at maralorn.de (Malte Ott) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 10:13:57 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Dealing with abuse on the issue tracker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2024-07-25 08:48, Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > I agree -- I'd like our main proposals process page > to explicitly refer to the > HF guidelines. > > I don't want to write new guidelines! I don't think we need to modify the > HF ones except to say (on our page) that we expect contributors (not just > committee members) to our GitHub to adhere to them. Our GitHub is our > walled garden, and we can state requirements for participation. (Is it > technically possible to prevent particular people posting on GitHub?) Yes, people can technically be banned from interaction with repositories. Thus any policy would not be unenforceable. From erikd at mega-nerd.com Thu Jul 25 09:23:46 2024 From: erikd at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 19:23:46 +1000 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #652: Import shadowing In-Reply-To: References: <87ba8738-761f-4d39-8677-0486bd83358f@well-typed.com> Message-ID: <20240725192346.5997dce3b739da7cf3ac2782@mega-nerd.com> Looking now. Not sure how I missed this. Thanks, Erik Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > Erik, > > Adam assigned this to you on 26 June, and usually we'd expect a > recommendation from the shepherd within a week, or two at most. But I > don't think we've heard from you. > > Could you drive us towards a timely conclusion? I don't this this is a > controversial one. > > Thanks! > > Simon > > On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 20:50, Adam Gundry wrote: > > > Dear Committee, > > > > Gergő Érdi proposes to allow local binders to shadow names defined in > > outer scopes: > > > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/652 > > > > https://github.com/gergoerdi/ghc-proposals/blob/mu/import-shadowing/proposals/0000-import-shadowing.rst > > > > I'd like to nominate Erik de Castro Lopo as the shepherd. > > > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam > > > > > > -- > > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > > _______________________________________________ > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ From erikd at mega-nerd.com Fri Jul 26 03:15:00 2024 From: erikd at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 13:15:00 +1000 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #652: Import shadowing In-Reply-To: References: <87ba8738-761f-4d39-8677-0486bd83358f@well-typed.com> Message-ID: <20240726131500.107f03e1514421332680a378@mega-nerd.com> Hi all, This proposal seems totally reasonable. I have marked it as "under review" and added a "Pending committee review" label. Cheers, Erik Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > Erik, > > Adam assigned this to you on 26 June, and usually we'd expect a > recommendation from the shepherd within a week, or two at most. But I > don't think we've heard from you. > > Could you drive us towards a timely conclusion? I don't this this is a > controversial one. > > Thanks! > > Simon > > On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 20:50, Adam Gundry wrote: > > > Dear Committee, > > > > Gergő Érdi proposes to allow local binders to shadow names defined in > > outer scopes: > > > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/652 > > > > https://github.com/gergoerdi/ghc-proposals/blob/mu/import-shadowing/proposals/0000-import-shadowing.rst > > > > I'd like to nominate Erik de Castro Lopo as the shepherd. > > > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam > > > > > > -- > > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > > _______________________________________________ > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ From simon.peytonjones at gmail.com Fri Jul 26 07:18:55 2024 From: simon.peytonjones at gmail.com (Simon Peyton Jones) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:18:55 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #652: Import shadowing In-Reply-To: <20240726131500.107f03e1514421332680a378@mega-nerd.com> References: <87ba8738-761f-4d39-8677-0486bd83358f@well-typed.com> <20240726131500.107f03e1514421332680a378@mega-nerd.com> Message-ID: This proposal seems totally reasonable. I In a blizzard of email, we may not all remember that you are the shepherd. It's helpful to say something like Dear GHC Steering Committee I am the shepherd for https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/652 https://github.com/gergoerdi/ghc-proposals/blob/mu/import-shadowing/proposals/0000-import-shadowing.rst In it, Gergo proposes to allow local binders to shadow names defined in outer scopes. [In a more complicated proposal you might like to say a bit more, and why you like it; but this one is fairly simple.] I recommend acceptance of the proposal as-is. Please respond by Weds 7th August. This reminds us (a) that you are speaking as the shepherd, (b) gives us a date to respond by, (c) conveys a clear recommendation. (Of course choose your own date.) As shepherd you will remind us near your deadline, and guide us to a conclusion. All of this is general guidance for all shepherds! I'm just using you as an example .. I hope you don't mind. thanks Simon On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 at 04:15, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote: > Hi all, > > This proposal seems totally reasonable. I have marked it as "under review" > and added a "Pending committee review" label. > > Cheers, > Erik > > > Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > > > Erik, > > > > Adam assigned this to you on 26 June, and usually we'd expect a > > recommendation from the shepherd within a week, or two at most. But I > > don't think we've heard from you. > > > > Could you drive us towards a timely conclusion? I don't this this is a > > controversial one. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Simon > > > > On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 20:50, Adam Gundry wrote: > > > > > Dear Committee, > > > > > > Gergő Érdi proposes to allow local binders to shadow names defined in > > > outer scopes: > > > > > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/652 > > > > > > > https://github.com/gergoerdi/ghc-proposals/blob/mu/import-shadowing/proposals/0000-import-shadowing.rst > > > > > > I'd like to nominate Erik de Castro Lopo as the shepherd. > > > > > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > > > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > > > > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > > > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > > > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > > > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Erik de Castro Lopo > http://www.mega-nerd.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at seidel.io Sun Jul 28 16:32:05 2024 From: eric at seidel.io (Eric Seidel) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 11:32:05 -0500 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> Message-ID: <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Dear Committee, Brandon has proposed an amendment to his previous multiline string proposal. https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 The change is to strip one trailing newline from the lexed string, meaning that a multiline string like """ hello world """ would actually lex as "hello\nworld". He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I recommend acceptance. This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. Eric On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, at 02:19, Adam Gundry wrote: > Dear Committee, > > Brandon Chinn proposes to amend the multiline string literal proposal > #569 to remove one trailing newline: > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 > > I'd like to nominate Eric Seidel as the shepherd, since he was the > shepherd of #569. > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > Cheers, > > Adam > > > -- > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee From malte.ott at maralorn.de Sun Jul 28 16:46:30 2024 From: malte.ott at maralorn.de (Malte Ott) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 18:46:30 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I recommend acceptance. > > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. I agree, this sounds like an improvement. From mpg at mpg.is Sun Jul 28 19:23:25 2024 From: mpg at mpg.is (=?UTF-8?Q?Matth=C3=ADas_P=C3=A1ll_Gissurarson?=) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 21:23:25 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a good improvement. Accept. /Matti Palli On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 18:46 Malte Ott wrote: > On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: > > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I > recommend acceptance. > > > > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will > declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. > > I agree, this sounds like an improvement. > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jakob.bruenker at gmail.com Sun Jul 28 20:29:26 2024 From: jakob.bruenker at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Jakob_Br=C3=BCnker?=) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 22:29:26 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: Seems like a good change to me. Jakob On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 9:23 PM Matthías Páll Gissurarson wrote: > Sounds like a good improvement. Accept. > > /Matti Palli > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 18:46 Malte Ott wrote: > >> On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: >> > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I >> recommend acceptance. >> > >> > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will >> declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. >> >> I agree, this sounds like an improvement. >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moritz.angermann at gmail.com Mon Jul 29 00:27:38 2024 From: moritz.angermann at gmail.com (Moritz Angermann) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 09:27:38 +0900 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds reasonable! 2024년 7월 29일 (월) 오전 5:29, Jakob Brünker 님이 작성: > Seems like a good change to me. > > Jakob > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 9:23 PM Matthías Páll Gissurarson > wrote: > >> Sounds like a good improvement. Accept. >> >> /Matti Palli >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 18:46 Malte Ott wrote: >> >>> On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: >>> > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I >>> recommend acceptance. >>> > >>> > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will >>> declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. >>> >>> I agree, this sounds like an improvement. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io Mon Jul 29 07:28:14 2024 From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Arnaud Spiwack) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 09:28:14 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: I'm in favour as well. On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 at 02:28, Moritz Angermann wrote: > Sounds reasonable! > > 2024년 7월 29일 (월) 오전 5:29, Jakob Brünker 님이 작성: > >> Seems like a good change to me. >> >> Jakob >> >> On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 9:23 PM Matthías Páll Gissurarson >> wrote: >> >>> Sounds like a good improvement. Accept. >>> >>> /Matti Palli >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 18:46 Malte Ott wrote: >>> >>>> On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: >>>> > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. >>>> I recommend acceptance. >>>> > >>>> > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will >>>> declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. >>>> >>>> I agree, this sounds like an improvement. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -- Arnaud Spiwack Director, Research at https://moduscreate.com and https://tweag.io. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikd at mega-nerd.com Mon Jul 29 07:51:31 2024 From: erikd at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 17:51:31 +1000 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: <20240729175131.90845500ee0c2a90c5eef917@mega-nerd.com> :thumbsup: from me. Arnaud Spiwack wrote: > I'm in favour as well. > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 at 02:28, Moritz Angermann > wrote: > > > Sounds reasonable! > > > > 2024년 7월 29일 (월) 오전 5:29, Jakob Brünker 님이 작성: > > > >> Seems like a good change to me. > >> > >> Jakob > >> > >> On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 9:23 PM Matthías Páll Gissurarson > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sounds like a good improvement. Accept. > >>> > >>> /Matti Palli > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 18:46 Malte Ott wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 2024-07-28 11:32, Eric Seidel wrote: > >>>> > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. > >>>> I recommend acceptance. > >>>> > > >>>> > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will > >>>> declare the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. > >>>> > >>>> I agree, this sounds like an improvement. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list > >>>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > >>>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list > >>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > >>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list > >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > > > > > -- > Arnaud Spiwack > Director, Research at https://moduscreate.com and https://tweag.io. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ From simon.peytonjones at gmail.com Mon Jul 29 09:19:28 2024 From: simon.peytonjones at gmail.com (Simon Peyton Jones) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 10:19:28 +0100 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: I'm in support. Simon On Sun, 28 Jul 2024 at 17:32, Eric Seidel wrote: > Dear Committee, > > Brandon has proposed an amendment to his previous multiline string > proposal. > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 > > The change is to strip one trailing newline from the lexed string, meaning > that a multiline string like > > """ > hello > world > """ > > would actually lex as "hello\nworld". > > He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I > recommend acceptance. > > This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will declare > the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. > > Eric > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, at 02:19, Adam Gundry wrote: > > Dear Committee, > > > > Brandon Chinn proposes to amend the multiline string literal proposal > > #569 to remove one trailing newline: > > > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 > > > > I'd like to nominate Eric Seidel as the shepherd, since he was the > > shepherd of #569. > > > > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in > > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam > > > > > > -- > > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ > > > > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 > > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England > > _______________________________________________ > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgraf1337 at gmail.com Mon Jul 29 18:06:01 2024 From: sgraf1337 at gmail.com (Sebastian Graf) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 20:06:01 +0200 Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #637: Modify multiline string proposal #569 to remove one trailing newline In-Reply-To: References: <3d92f9b2-7b8c-4d5a-aec3-01f7398bb3f3@well-typed.com> <2edd9808-55b2-40fc-952a-48158347187a@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: +1 Am Mo., 29. Juli 2024 um 11:19 Uhr schrieb Simon Peyton Jones < simon.peytonjones at gmail.com>: > I'm in support. > > Simon > > On Sun, 28 Jul 2024 at 17:32, Eric Seidel wrote: > >> Dear Committee, >> >> Brandon has proposed an amendment to his previous multiline string >> proposal. >> >> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 >> >> The change is to strip one trailing newline from the lexed string, >> meaning that a multiline string like >> >> """ >> hello >> world >> """ >> >> would actually lex as "hello\nworld". >> >> He makes a compelling case that this behavior is more compositional. I >> recommend acceptance. >> >> This is a tiny change, so I'll give us a week for review and will declare >> the amendment accepted next weekend barring any objections. >> >> Eric >> >> On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, at 02:19, Adam Gundry wrote: >> > Dear Committee, >> > >> > Brandon Chinn proposes to amend the multiline string literal proposal >> > #569 to remove one trailing newline: >> > >> > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/637 >> > >> > I'd like to nominate Eric Seidel as the shepherd, since he was the >> > shepherd of #569. >> > >> > Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in >> > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Adam >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant >> > Well-Typed LLP, https://www.well-typed.com/ >> > >> > Registered in England & Wales, OC335890 >> > 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WC1N 3AX, England >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> > >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list >> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org >> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee >> > _______________________________________________ > ghc-steering-committee mailing list > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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