From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Wed Jan  6 09:16:52 2021
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:16:52 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Structured summary
In-Reply-To: <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <602220b62cf41629fddeac648bde36fff290767d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <183fc007270be58116118f2d6abcf4402336e6f2.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB022252776A8CB3ADE8EB3F70ADDE9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Joachim, this document is extremely helpful. I'm also pretty
satisfied about the current state. I'll be a bit grumpy about GADTs and
type families for a while, I guess. But since this is the first GHC20XX and
we decided to be pretty conservative, it's fine not to leave some out.
We're still rolling nearly 40 extensions in. It's nearly half of the
Haskell 98 joke. This is pretty decent progress, I'd say.

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 12:15 PM Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 23.12.2020, 10:07 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
> ghc-steering-committee:
> > >  Simon, is this sufficient that it can replace manually maintaining the
> > >  Google doc?
> >
> > Thank you!   Yes, it's 90% as good which is probably enough. Can you
> > put them in a specified order rather than alphabetical?  (Having
> > "Class and instance decls" so far from "Types" is odd.)
>
> Tricky. Maybe I can parse docs/users_guide/exts.rst and use the order
> of that file (putting all those that are _not_ part of that file
> afterwards).
>
> … ok, done. (If the order is now unsuitable I hope that we can improve
> that at the source, in the GHC docs :-))
>
> > TypeApplications has nothing to do with Patterns.
>
> Hmm, this is because GHC’s master
>
>    users_guide/exts/patterns.rst
>
> mentions type_application. This glitch will go away once someone merges
> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/4673
>
> > Why is DeriveGeneric under "Misc" rather than "Deriving"?
>
> Because it’s official place in the documentation at
>
> https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/generics.html#extension-DeriveGeneric
> is in
>
>     Docs » 6. Language extensions » 6.19. Miscellaneous » 6.19.3. Generic
> programming
>
> > What is the difference between "Other" and "Misc"?
>
> Miscellaneous is when I find the extension in
> https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/misc.html
>
> Other is when my script can’t make sense of which section it belongs
> to. This happens when the documentation isn’t grouped under a dedicated
> header; for example
>
> https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/ffi.html#extension-ForeignFunctionInterface
> has
>
>    Docs » 6. Language extensions » 6.17. Foreign function interface (FFI)
>
> I guess in that case I should try to take the title of that section…
>
> … done, no Other shows up any more.
>
>
>
> It would be helpful if GHC would publish a fully machine-readable file
> with all the meta data about extensions:
>
>  * Name
>  * Since which version
>  * Category
>  * Link to docs
>  * Implied extensions
>  * Part of Haskell98? Part of Haskell2010? Part of the “default set”?
>
> Until we have that, I guess I'll continue scraping the `.rst` files.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From trupill at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 12:22:56 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 07:22:56 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Structured summary
In-Reply-To: <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <602220b62cf41629fddeac648bde36fff290767d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <183fc007270be58116118f2d6abcf4402336e6f2.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB022252776A8CB3ADE8EB3F70ADDE9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOuK7fHbgpMFjKCdZUzN6-DY9uXVoSFQ8F27rKQ4r1nq8w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, and happy new year to everybody!

Even though I share with Arnaud a bit of sadness about GADTs, I think that
the set of extensions we ended up with is quite coherent:
- We switch on by default some “simple syntactic” extensions, like new
forms of numbers, empty cases, and so on.
- We put all generically-derivable type classes on the same ground; no more
special treatment of Eq, Ord… just because they were there earlier.
- We enable the most battle-tested extensions to type classes which never
compromise the safety.
- We make the kind system more regular by enabling PolyKinds,
ConstraintKinds, and KindSignatures; but no fancy promotion from DataKinds.

I think it’s good that we’ve decided to keep *both* GADTs and TypeFamilies
out. For me this gives the message that type level computation is still
something we considered advanced and not fully settled; hence it’s still
under a pragma.

Kind regards,
Alejandro
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Thu Jan  7 11:33:33 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2021 12:33:33 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee]  Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
Message-ID: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

this is your secretary speaking:

The Char Kind
has been proposed by Daniel Rogozin
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387
https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst

I’ll propose Alejandro as the shepherd.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in 
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Thanks,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From trupill at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 16:38:18 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 11:38:18 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
In-Reply-To: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>

 Dear Committee,
This proposal adds a kind-level ‘Char’ in a similar way as other built-in
types, and an API to work with them and with Symbols.
My recommendation is to accept the proposal: it fills a gap in our current
kind-level machinery in the most minimal way.

Regards,
Alejandro

On 7 Jan 2021 at 12:33:33, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Dear Committee,
>
> this is your secretary speaking:
>
> The Char Kind
> has been proposed by Daniel Rogozin
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387
>
> https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst
>
> I’ll propose Alejandro as the shepherd.
>
> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process
>
> Thanks,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Thu Jan  7 17:02:47 2021
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 18:02:47 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQ=y_dN7c6PEWz8XsHx5Zhr1EUAwjcPFmo12fja37CTqVQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have no real opinion either way. The meat of the proposal is in the
choice of type families. Are they reasonable? Probably. So I'm probably in
favour, though I could easily be swayed either way.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 5:38 PM Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Committee,
> This proposal adds a kind-level ‘Char’ in a similar way as other built-in
> types, and an API to work with them and with Symbols.
> My recommendation is to accept the proposal: it fills a gap in our current
> kind-level machinery in the most minimal way.
>
> Regards,
> Alejandro
>
> On 7 Jan 2021 at 12:33:33, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Committee,
>>
>> this is your secretary speaking:
>>
>> The Char Kind
>> has been proposed by Daniel Rogozin
>> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387
>>
>> https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst
>>
>> I’ll propose Alejandro as the shepherd.
>>
>> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
>> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joachim
>> --
>> Joachim Breitner
>>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From rae at richarde.dev  Thu Jan  7 17:05:03 2021
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 17:05:03 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
In-Reply-To: <CAH6fHQ=y_dN7c6PEWz8XsHx5Zhr1EUAwjcPFmo12fja37CTqVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQ=y_dN7c6PEWz8XsHx5Zhr1EUAwjcPFmo12fja37CTqVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010f0176ddcf0fbb-aee67b11-fd0d-4a26-9b8d-91ee67c1f8db-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>

I'm in favor of this proposal, for the reasons Alejandro gives: it fills a gap, and it's about as minimal as we can have.

Thanks,
Richard

> On Jan 7, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Spiwack, Arnaud <arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io> wrote:
> 
> I have no real opinion either way. The meat of the proposal is in the choice of type families. Are they reasonable? Probably. So I'm probably in favour, though I could easily be swayed either way.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 5:38 PM Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com <mailto:trupill at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Committee,
> This proposal adds a kind-level ‘Char’ in a similar way as other built-in types, and an API to work with them and with Symbols.
> My recommendation is to accept the proposal: it fills a gap in our current kind-level machinery in the most minimal way.
> 
> Regards,
> Alejandro
> 
> On 7 Jan 2021 at 12:33:33, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de <mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:
> Dear Committee,
> 
> this is your secretary speaking:
> 
> The Char Kind
> has been proposed by Daniel Rogozin
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387 <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387>
> https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst <https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst>
> 
> I’ll propose Alejandro as the shepherd.
> 
> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in 
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process>
> 
> Thanks,
> Joachim
> -- 
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de <mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/ <http://www.joachim-breitner.de/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org <mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee <https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org <mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee <https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee

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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Sat Jan  9 16:39:17 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 17:39:17 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

after some refinement by some of you on the PR (thanks!), Richard would
like us to vote on the bylaws.

Please review
https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/bylaws/committee.rst
and also the other changes of
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360/files

The maybe most prominent change is the introduction of term limits of 3
years for all who are not Simon. This means that Richard, Iavor and me
would, upon acceptance of this proposal, drop out, causing the size of
the committee to drop below 9, thus triggering a call for nominations,
for which we’d be eligible to re-nominiate ourself.

Please have a closer look again, so that we have ironed out all
wrinkles, and then very soon can vote about these bylaws.

Cheers,
Joachim


Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> Hi all,
> 
> Some time ago, I posted https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360, an attempt at crafting bylaws for this committee. Conversation has died down, and so I'd like to have a discussion that will lead to amendments and then eventual acceptance (of something).
> 
> I think it's best for this discussion to be right on the PR, not this thread. However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!) from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.
> 
> Thanks!
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Sat Jan  9 16:43:52 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 17:43:52 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #368: Warn on prefix/suffix
 operators, Shepherd: Tom
Message-ID: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

this is your secretary speaking:

Warn on prefix/suffix operators
has been proposed by Richard
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/368

This is an amendment to #229 (Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing),
see the PR description linked above for details.

I’ll propose Tom as the shepherd.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in 
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Thanks,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Sun Jan 10 17:50:54 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 18:50:54 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Structured summary
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOuK7fHbgpMFjKCdZUzN6-DY9uXVoSFQ8F27rKQ4r1nq8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <602220b62cf41629fddeac648bde36fff290767d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <183fc007270be58116118f2d6abcf4402336e6f2.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB022252776A8CB3ADE8EB3F70ADDE9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOuK7fHbgpMFjKCdZUzN6-DY9uXVoSFQ8F27rKQ4r1nq8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e4975e3714b77a8e2d0cb7631af19d41c03783.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi all,

it’s 8 days to Simon’s birthday, I mean, till the deadline. It was
rather quiet here the last weeks – maybe a good sign, and a sign that
we have come to terms with the (naturally kinda arbitrary) outcome so
far? Or it it just debate fatigue?

Just a reminder: See
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/ghc2021/proposals/0000-ghc2021.rst#executive-summary
for the current state of affair.

Any new (or renewed) pleas should probably come now, or next year.

Cheers,
Joachim


PS: I tried to make a graph out of our pair-wise ballot similarities,
to map out the committee, but I failed to get graphviz to visualize
that. If someone wants to give it a shot, I have attached the .dot file
with the raw data.


Am Mittwoch, den 06.01.2021, 07:22 -0500 schrieb Alejandro Serrano
Mena:
> Hi, and happy new year to everybody!
> 
> Even though I share with Arnaud a bit of sadness about GADTs, I think that the set of extensions we ended up with is quite coherent:
> - We switch on by default some “simple syntactic” extensions, like new forms of numbers, empty cases, and so on.
> - We put all generically-derivable type classes on the same ground; no more special treatment of Eq, Ord… just because they were there earlier.
> - We enable the most battle-tested extensions to type classes which never compromise the safety.
> - We make the kind system more regular by enabling PolyKinds, ConstraintKinds, and KindSignatures; but no fancy promotion from DataKinds.
> 
> I think it’s good that we’ve decided to keep *both* GADTs and TypeFamilies out. For me this gives the message that type level computation is still something we considered advanced and not fully settled; hence it’s still under a pragma.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Alejandro
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/

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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Sun Jan 10 22:21:15 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 23:21:15 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Principal Component
 Analysis
In-Reply-To: <00e4975e3714b77a8e2d0cb7631af19d41c03783.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <602220b62cf41629fddeac648bde36fff290767d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <183fc007270be58116118f2d6abcf4402336e6f2.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB022252776A8CB3ADE8EB3F70ADDE9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOuK7fHbgpMFjKCdZUzN6-DY9uXVoSFQ8F27rKQ4r1nq8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00e4975e3714b77a8e2d0cb7631af19d41c03783.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <889fc18aa16257e027738ad709526b98c5c91390.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

as a little Sunday evening statistics and visualization nerding
relaxation, I tried to see if I can visualize where the committee
members stand on the various kinds of extensions. It seems that
“Principal Component Analysis” might be a good fit.

In the ~100 dimensional space where each of our ballots inhabits one
point, it identifies the primary (and secondary) direction along which
we are most diverse (I think). One nice thing is that this produces a
two dimensional chart.

I was _hoping_ to maybe see “heavy type hackery” and “lots of syntactic
sugar” emerge as the two main directions.

Well, let’s look at pca.png first…

Not quite surprising, we see Tom relatively isolated (Tom voted for 7
extensions that nobody else voted for, and was in general very
liberal).

Also Iavor is somewhat far off, also not surprising, given his
reluctance to go all in on GADTs/TypeFamilies etc. Surprisingly,
Richard is quite close to him!

Simon PJ and me are very close to each other, and somewhere in the
middle, and the others seem to have quite an opposite stand from Iavor
in the second principal components?


Can we understand these two directions? They are essentially (I
believe) eigenvectors in the ~100-dimensional space. I tried to
visualize them by another scatter plot, see vectors.png. There, we can
see that one’s vote for StarIsType contributes a lot towards the
primary principal component, and one for Unicode a lot towards the
secondary.

We see GADTs and TypeFamilies on the far bottom, and FunDeps not far.
This indicates that the y-axis really might be the “heavy type level
programming” axis (with type level programming features causing
negative numbers).

I can’t quite make sense of the x-axis though…


I stopped short of coloring the points in this graph by “extension
cateogry”…


So, no big conclusions to be drawn from this. Also, I am definitely no
expert in the Data Sciences, so this may be misguided, or simply wrong.
If someone wants to give it a better shot, please do! I am happy to
provide the raw data in a simple accessible form.


Cheers,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/

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From rae at richarde.dev  Mon Jan 11 03:53:16 2021
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 03:53:16 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Principal Component
 Analysis
In-Reply-To: <889fc18aa16257e027738ad709526b98c5c91390.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <602220b62cf41629fddeac648bde36fff290767d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <183fc007270be58116118f2d6abcf4402336e6f2.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB022252776A8CB3ADE8EB3F70ADDE9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <9f0de4df03f9512ecef9d15c6923d257faf15bdf.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAH6fHQ=eFyvsSW_v2aKsT1z65K9pcZ9T8=zpd7LrKt+rZ1sekA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOuK7fHbgpMFjKCdZUzN6-DY9uXVoSFQ8F27rKQ4r1nq8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00e4975e3714b77a8e2d0cb7631af19d41c03783.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <889fc18aa16257e027738ad709526b98c5c91390.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <010f0176ef939ab4-783bd634-505f-4e6e-9c6e-7df20c1366ae-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>

I think a bit of unresolved discussion here is the question of whether it is the intended fate of extensions to become on-by-default, or whether we expect some extensions to stay on as a way of forcing users to opt in. In this light, my proximity to Iavor is not that surprising, as I believe we both think that some extensions are best kept as extensions. On the other hand, I believe Arnaud (joined by Simon Marlow, if I recall) has advocated most strongly that each extension should either graduate to be on-by-default or has somehow failed to pass muster. (I won't quite say that it should be removed.) This is an interesting philosophical discussion, and I think it would be good to continue, but perhaps after this round is complete.

Thanks for the analysis!

Richard

> On Jan 10, 2021, at 5:21 PM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> as a little Sunday evening statistics and visualization nerding
> relaxation, I tried to see if I can visualize where the committee
> members stand on the various kinds of extensions. It seems that
> “Principal Component Analysis” might be a good fit.
> 
> In the ~100 dimensional space where each of our ballots inhabits one
> point, it identifies the primary (and secondary) direction along which
> we are most diverse (I think). One nice thing is that this produces a
> two dimensional chart.
> 
> I was _hoping_ to maybe see “heavy type hackery” and “lots of syntactic
> sugar” emerge as the two main directions.
> 
> Well, let’s look at pca.png first…
> 
> Not quite surprising, we see Tom relatively isolated (Tom voted for 7
> extensions that nobody else voted for, and was in general very
> liberal).
> 
> Also Iavor is somewhat far off, also not surprising, given his
> reluctance to go all in on GADTs/TypeFamilies etc. Surprisingly,
> Richard is quite close to him!
> 
> Simon PJ and me are very close to each other, and somewhere in the
> middle, and the others seem to have quite an opposite stand from Iavor
> in the second principal components?
> 
> 
> Can we understand these two directions? They are essentially (I
> believe) eigenvectors in the ~100-dimensional space. I tried to
> visualize them by another scatter plot, see vectors.png. There, we can
> see that one’s vote for StarIsType contributes a lot towards the
> primary principal component, and one for Unicode a lot towards the
> secondary.
> 
> We see GADTs and TypeFamilies on the far bottom, and FunDeps not far.
> This indicates that the y-axis really might be the “heavy type level
> programming” axis (with type level programming features causing
> negative numbers).
> 
> I can’t quite make sense of the x-axis though…
> 
> 
> I stopped short of coloring the points in this graph by “extension
> cateogry”…
> 
> 
> So, no big conclusions to be drawn from this. Also, I am definitely no
> expert in the Data Sciences, so this may be misguided, or simply wrong.
> If someone wants to give it a better shot, please do! I am happy to
> provide the raw data in a simple accessible form.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> 
> -- 
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
> 
> <pca.png><vectors.png>_______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee


From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jan 11 08:34:27 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 08:34:27 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB0222B47CBC58F206E7F52DB6ADAB9@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

Looks good to me.

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-
|  bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 09 January 2021 16:39
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
|  
|  Dear Committee,
|  
|  after some refinement by some of you on the PR (thanks!), Richard
|  would like us to vote on the bylaws.
|  
|  Please review
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fgoldfirere%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fblob%2Fbylaws%2Fcommittee.rst&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%4
|  0microsoft.com%7Cc7976ebaf92f4bc62d9008d8b4bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91
|  ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637458071801222189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
|  JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C100
|  0&amp;sdata=1YoczhR7qbaqaW28XNkRWxUnio1oJcN4MuVpgl81Cs8%3D&amp;reserve
|  d=0
|  and also the other changes of
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fpull%2F360%2Ffiles&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.
|  com%7Cc7976ebaf92f4bc62d9008d8b4bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
|  b47%7C1%7C0%7C637458071801222189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
|  jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata
|  =NsTt6l9M%2BSud15VKLd6%2Fgr1NfdQGEH3WSO7re7jLBhY%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  The maybe most prominent change is the introduction of term limits of
|  3 years for all who are not Simon. This means that Richard, Iavor and
|  me would, upon acceptance of this proposal, drop out, causing the size
|  of the committee to drop below 9, thus triggering a call for
|  nominations, for which we'd be eligible to re-nominiate ourself.
|  
|  Please have a closer look again, so that we have ironed out all
|  wrinkles, and then very soon can vote about these bylaws.
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  
|  
|  Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
|  > Hi all,
|  >
|  > Some time ago, I posted
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fpull%2F360&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cc7
|  976ebaf92f4bc62d9008d8b4bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%
|  7C0%7C637458071801232188%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
|  CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=VcVhRYa
|  UjUWMCUivWnreRgUWaHJ3BrYnJ23yXgweJaI%3D&amp;reserved=0, an attempt at
|  crafting bylaws for this committee. Conversation has died down, and so
|  I'd like to have a discussion that will lead to amendments and then
|  eventual acceptance (of something).
|  >
|  > I think it's best for this discussion to be right on the PR, not
|  this thread. However, given that this PR is all about how we function,
|  as a committee, I would like to see participation (ideally,
|  agreement!) from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a
|  LGTM.
|  >
|  > Thanks!
|  > Richard
|  > _______________________________________________
|  > ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  >
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  > .haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&a
|  >
|  mp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cc7976ebaf92f4bc62d9008d8b4
|  >
|  bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637458071801232188
|  >
|  %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
|  >
|  k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=xTTLS2XKB%2BeQVN9XITgRnLrLoD4xJ
|  > kA52TWl0NJq2C4%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
|  oachim-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cc7976ebaf9
|  2f4bc62d9008d8b4bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
|  7458071801232188%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
|  2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=4xye%2BQxiMZ5bG
|  RvhJ9IFd2fQwVn%2B91FP1MYeDiW2Y%2BE%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  .haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cc7976ebaf92f4bc
|  62d9008d8b4bd262d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374580
|  71801232188%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
|  IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=xTTLS2XKB%2BeQVN9XIT
|  gRnLrLoD4xJkA52TWl0NJq2C4%3D&amp;reserved=0

From cgibbard at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 19:48:33 2021
From: cgibbard at gmail.com (Cale Gibbard)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:48:33 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3RzK-c-KRVsXFEDUE6kD2q5PYmkn90i173Qo0i4EXedM4W2g@mail.gmail.com>

LGTM

On Tue, 29 Sept 2020 at 11:01, Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Some time ago, I posted
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360, an attempt at
> crafting bylaws for this committee. Conversation has died down, and so I'd
> like to have a discussion that will lead to amendments and then eventual
> acceptance (of something).
>
> I think it's best for this discussion to be right on the PR, not this
> thread. However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a
> committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!) from
> everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.
>
> Thanks!
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Wed Jan 13 22:14:22 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 23:14:22 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
Message-ID: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

after 2½ months, time for a new status updates. What was going on here?

 * Well, GHC2021 was going on. Lots of it. But it’s actually coming to a close
   in five days. It will be exciting to see how it affects the Haskell
   landscapes.
 
 * Heh, last status I wrote:

   Richard refines the bylaws in #360. Maybe everybody has a second
   look now and then we can merge this?

   I guess that still applies. Richard and I are discussing a corner case
   on the PR, but otherwise approvals are coming in, and unless that changes,
   we’ll merge that once we ironed out that wrinkle.

 * Simon introduced the position of a nudger, namely Tom.

   Tom, below are some PRs where you might need to nudge someone!

 * we were asked to review these proposals:
   #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access, shepherd: Tom
   #242: Unsaturated type families, Shepherd: Richard Eisenberg
   #370: Syntax for Modifiers, Shepherd: Alejandro
   #387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
   #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
   #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor

 * we have a recommendation from the shepherd about:
   #369: Add sumToTag# primop, (rec: accept)
   #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (rec: accept)
   #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms (rec: reject)
   #242: Unsaturated type families (rec: accept)
   #313: Delimited continuation primops (rec: accept)
   #370: Syntax for Modifiers (rec: accept)
   #387: The Char kind (rec: accept)

 * we have sent the following proposals back to revision
   #283: Local modules

 * we decided about the following proposals
   #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (accept)
   #370: Syntax for Modifiers (accept)
   #242: Unsaturated type families (accept)

In addition to the two meta-proposals (bylaws and GHC2021), we
currently have to act on the following 7 proposals, up by 2!
Some need some nudging.

## Waiting for committee decision

#387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
      Looks like it’ll be smoothly accepted, but it’s only a week old. 
      Will maybe merge in a few days.

#381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor
      Recommendation was to reject, but discussion went into the more 
      abstract “whither dependent Haskell”. But what does this mean
      for this proposal?

#369: Add sumToTag# primop
      Essentially accepted, waiting for feedback from the author on final tweaks

#313: Delimited continuation primops, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
      Mostly positive reception, but there was discussion.
      Simon, can this be accepted as it, or does it need more work/time/discussion?

#302: \of, Shepherd: Cale
      No new discussion. Cale, what is the conclusion?


## Waiting for Shepherd action

#367: Clarify primops using unboxed sums, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
      This is aging… we need a shepherd recommendation

#368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
      Tom, your turn

Cheers,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Thu Jan 14 16:27:56 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:27:56 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
In-Reply-To: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB0222F522BCB3025D36CA0498ADA89@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

|  In addition to the two meta-proposals (bylaws and GHC2021), we currently
|  have to act on the following 7 proposals, up by 2!
|  Some need some nudging.

Tom, I think you offered to be our nudger.  Do you need nudging 😊?

Simon


|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
|  On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 13 January 2021 22:14
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
|  
|  Dear Committee,
|  
|  after 2½ months, time for a new status updates. What was going on here?
|  
|   * Well, GHC2021 was going on. Lots of it. But it’s actually coming to a
|  close
|     in five days. It will be exciting to see how it affects the Haskell
|     landscapes.
|  
|   * Heh, last status I wrote:
|  
|     Richard refines the bylaws in #360. Maybe everybody has a second
|     look now and then we can merge this?
|  
|     I guess that still applies. Richard and I are discussing a corner case
|     on the PR, but otherwise approvals are coming in, and unless that
|  changes,
|     we’ll merge that once we ironed out that wrinkle.
|  
|   * Simon introduced the position of a nudger, namely Tom.
|  
|     Tom, below are some PRs where you might need to nudge someone!
|  
|   * we were asked to review these proposals:
|     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access, shepherd:
|  Tom
|     #242: Unsaturated type families, Shepherd: Richard Eisenberg
|     #370: Syntax for Modifiers, Shepherd: Alejandro
|     #387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
|     #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
|     #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor
|  
|   * we have a recommendation from the shepherd about:
|     #369: Add sumToTag# primop, (rec: accept)
|     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (rec:
|  accept)
|     #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms (rec: reject)
|     #242: Unsaturated type families (rec: accept)
|     #313: Delimited continuation primops (rec: accept)
|     #370: Syntax for Modifiers (rec: accept)
|     #387: The Char kind (rec: accept)
|  
|   * we have sent the following proposals back to revision
|     #283: Local modules
|  
|   * we decided about the following proposals
|     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (accept)
|     #370: Syntax for Modifiers (accept)
|     #242: Unsaturated type families (accept)
|  
|  In addition to the two meta-proposals (bylaws and GHC2021), we currently
|  have to act on the following 7 proposals, up by 2!
|  Some need some nudging.
|  
|  ## Waiting for committee decision
|  
|  #387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
|        Looks like it’ll be smoothly accepted, but it’s only a week old.
|        Will maybe merge in a few days.
|  
|  #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor
|        Recommendation was to reject, but discussion went into the more
|        abstract “whither dependent Haskell”. But what does this mean
|        for this proposal?
|  
|  #369: Add sumToTag# primop
|        Essentially accepted, waiting for feedback from the author on final
|  tweaks
|  
|  #313: Delimited continuation primops, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
|        Mostly positive reception, but there was discussion.
|        Simon, can this be accepted as it, or does it need more
|  work/time/discussion?
|  
|  #302: \of, Shepherd: Cale
|        No new discussion. Cale, what is the conclusion?
|  
|  
|  ## Waiting for Shepherd action
|  
|  #367: Clarify primops using unboxed sums, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
|        This is aging… we need a shepherd recommendation
|  
|  #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
|        Tom, your turn
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joach
|  im-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf129a6d1884e49
|  46c9a308d8b8109e51%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374617288
|  40678377%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
|  iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=6kMsahaFt6ayhXgbN11R7c5cATDzN9X
|  iqLJg0Mo5saE%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.has
|  kell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf129a6d1884e4946c9a
|  308d8b8109e51%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637461728840688
|  372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
|  1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=TSiM7uiX06Ux3Gj98pUIbzNuebrnK6FMESmr
|  bMCpGio%3D&amp;reserved=0

From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Fri Jan 15 09:37:02 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:37:02 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <687533526d8ddd9e1b193872acad699a01704637.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a
> committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!)
> from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.

LGTM

Cheers,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From i.am.tom.harding at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 11:11:30 2021
From: i.am.tom.harding at gmail.com (Tom Harding)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 11:11:30 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB0222F522BCB3025D36CA0498ADA89@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222F522BCB3025D36CA0498ADA89@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D2EEA3C8-F071-4AFE-B175-D1E0950A4D66@gmail.com>

Apparently so! Apologies for falling behind; I haven’t got into the swing of 2021 yet 😄
I will make sure to get caught up with everything today!

Thanks,
Tom

> On 14 Jan 2021, at 16:27, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org> wrote:
> 
> |  In addition to the two meta-proposals (bylaws and GHC2021), we currently
> |  have to act on the following 7 proposals, up by 2!
> |  Some need some nudging.
> 
> Tom, I think you offered to be our nudger.  Do you need nudging 😊?
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> |  -----Original Message-----
> |  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
> |  On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
> |  Sent: 13 January 2021 22:14
> |  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> |  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
> |  
> |  Dear Committee,
> |  
> |  after 2½ months, time for a new status updates. What was going on here?
> |  
> |   * Well, GHC2021 was going on. Lots of it. But it’s actually coming to a
> |  close
> |     in five days. It will be exciting to see how it affects the Haskell
> |     landscapes.
> |  
> |   * Heh, last status I wrote:
> |  
> |     Richard refines the bylaws in #360. Maybe everybody has a second
> |     look now and then we can merge this?
> |  
> |     I guess that still applies. Richard and I are discussing a corner case
> |     on the PR, but otherwise approvals are coming in, and unless that
> |  changes,
> |     we’ll merge that once we ironed out that wrinkle.
> |  
> |   * Simon introduced the position of a nudger, namely Tom.
> |  
> |     Tom, below are some PRs where you might need to nudge someone!
> |  
> |   * we were asked to review these proposals:
> |     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access, shepherd:
> |  Tom
> |     #242: Unsaturated type families, Shepherd: Richard Eisenberg
> |     #370: Syntax for Modifiers, Shepherd: Alejandro
> |     #387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
> |     #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
> |     #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor
> |  
> |   * we have a recommendation from the shepherd about:
> |     #369: Add sumToTag# primop, (rec: accept)
> |     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (rec:
> |  accept)
> |     #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms (rec: reject)
> |     #242: Unsaturated type families (rec: accept)
> |     #313: Delimited continuation primops (rec: accept)
> |     #370: Syntax for Modifiers (rec: accept)
> |     #387: The Char kind (rec: accept)
> |  
> |   * we have sent the following proposals back to revision
> |     #283: Local modules
> |  
> |   * we decided about the following proposals
> |     #366: DuplicateRecordFields without ambiguous field access (accept)
> |     #370: Syntax for Modifiers (accept)
> |     #242: Unsaturated type families (accept)
> |  
> |  In addition to the two meta-proposals (bylaws and GHC2021), we currently
> |  have to act on the following 7 proposals, up by 2!
> |  Some need some nudging.
> |  
> |  ## Waiting for committee decision
> |  
> |  #387: The Char kind, Shepherd: Alejandro
> |        Looks like it’ll be smoothly accepted, but it’s only a week old.
> |        Will maybe merge in a few days.
> |  
> |  #381: Visible 'forall' in types of terms, Shepherd: Iavor
> |        Recommendation was to reject, but discussion went into the more
> |        abstract “whither dependent Haskell”. But what does this mean
> |        for this proposal?
> |  
> |  #369: Add sumToTag# primop
> |        Essentially accepted, waiting for feedback from the author on final
> |  tweaks
> |  
> |  #313: Delimited continuation primops, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
> |        Mostly positive reception, but there was discussion.
> |        Simon, can this be accepted as it, or does it need more
> |  work/time/discussion?
> |  
> |  #302: \of, Shepherd: Cale
> |        No new discussion. Cale, what is the conclusion?
> |  
> |  
> |  ## Waiting for Shepherd action
> |  
> |  #367: Clarify primops using unboxed sums, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
> |        This is aging… we need a shepherd recommendation
> |  
> |  #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators, Shepherd: Tom
> |        Tom, your turn
> |  
> |  Cheers,
> |  Joachim
> |  --
> |  Joachim Breitner
> |    mail at joachim-breitner.de
> |  
> |  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joach
> |  im-
> |  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf129a6d1884e49
> |  46c9a308d8b8109e51%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374617288
> |  40678377%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> |  iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=6kMsahaFt6ayhXgbN11R7c5cATDzN9X
> |  iqLJg0Mo5saE%3D&amp;reserved=0
> |  
> |  
> |  _______________________________________________
> |  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> |  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> |  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.has
> |  kell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
> |  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf129a6d1884e4946c9a
> |  308d8b8109e51%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637461728840688
> |  372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
> |  1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=TSiM7uiX06Ux3Gj98pUIbzNuebrnK6FMESmr
> |  bMCpGio%3D&amp;reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee


From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Fri Jan 15 14:11:51 2021
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 15:11:51 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <687533526d8ddd9e1b193872acad699a01704637.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <687533526d8ddd9e1b193872acad699a01704637.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQ=CCE8jFYaujyZrnzPV+OUZv6nYu1rYbstEetjmU4tobg@mail.gmail.com>

Same here.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:37 AM Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> > However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a
> > committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!)
> > from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.
>
> LGTM
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From tomjharding at live.co.uk  Fri Jan 15 14:54:23 2021
From: tomjharding at live.co.uk (Tom Harding)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:54:23 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <CAH6fHQ=CCE8jFYaujyZrnzPV+OUZv6nYu1rYbstEetjmU4tobg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <687533526d8ddd9e1b193872acad699a01704637.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAH6fHQ=CCE8jFYaujyZrnzPV+OUZv6nYu1rYbstEetjmU4tobg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E85A745E-B093-433E-8A2B-AD2963060AF1@live.co.uk>

+1!

On 15 Jan 2021, at 14:11, Spiwack, Arnaud <arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io<mailto:arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io>> wrote:

Same here.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:37 AM Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:
Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a
> committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!)
> from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.

LGTM

Cheers,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/


_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee

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From tomjharding at live.co.uk  Fri Jan 15 15:09:59 2021
From: tomjharding at live.co.uk (Tom Harding)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 15:09:59 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Committee review #368: Warn on
 prefix/suffix operators
In-Reply-To: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>

Hi all,

Richard has proposed a small change to the previously accepted “Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing” proposal (whose current state is rendered here<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0229-whitespace-bang-patterns.rst>), specifically to say that the described warning be triggered by -Wall and -Wcompat.
I think this is sensible and hopefully not particularly controversial, and I recommend that we accept.

The updated proposal may be viewed here<https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/88690a542ada41dccd0f58d252ed6d392140034d/proposals/0000-prefix-suffix-operators.rst#proposed-change-specification>; please reply with any thoughts/concerns!

Thanks,
Tom

On 9 Jan 2021, at 16:43, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:

Dear Committee,

this is your secretary speaking:

Warn on prefix/suffix operators
has been proposed by Richard
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/368

This is an amendment to #229 (Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing),
see the PR description linked above for details.

I’ll propose Tom as the shepherd.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Thanks,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
 mail at joachim-breitner.de
 http://www.joachim-breitner.de/


_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee

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From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Mon Jan 18 08:05:31 2021
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:05:31 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Committee review #368: Warn on
 prefix/suffix operators
In-Reply-To: <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
References: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQmt00uMaCqeWNGBrj-WzfVp7jJzX8rKedqspOU8yfo3FA@mail.gmail.com>

I have no opinion either way. (which, I think, for such a small change
counts as a thumb up)

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:10 PM Tom Harding <tomjharding at live.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Richard has proposed a small change to the previously accepted
> “Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing” proposal (whose current state is
> rendered here
> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0229-whitespace-bang-patterns.rst>),
> specifically to say that the described warning be triggered by -Wall and
> -Wcompat.
> I think this is sensible and hopefully not particularly controversial, and
> I recommend that we accept.
>
> The updated proposal may be viewed here
> <https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/88690a542ada41dccd0f58d252ed6d392140034d/proposals/0000-prefix-suffix-operators.rst#proposed-change-specification>; please
> reply with any thoughts/concerns!
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> On 9 Jan 2021, at 16:43, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> this is your secretary speaking:
>
> Warn on prefix/suffix operators
> has been proposed by Richard
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/368
>
> This is an amendment to #229 (Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing),
> see the PR description linked above for details.
>
> I’ll propose Tom as the shepherd.
>
> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process
>
> Thanks,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 08:15:03 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:15:03 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Montag, den 21.12.2020, 19:50 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee:
> I think the period from now to 4 Jan doesn't count. Then we should allow a 
> fortnight, say to 18 Jan (my birthday).

that’s today.

Happy Birthday Simon! I am very happy to have around in all things GHC,
and I wish you an great next year.

Unless someone shouts stop really soon now, I will finalize the
proposal (e.g. remove text that is less useful in the final version),
merge and announce later today.


Cheers,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jan 18 09:03:54 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:03:54 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Committee review #368: Warn on
 prefix/suffix operators
In-Reply-To: <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
References: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB02221F0F4D3EEF303966145DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

I'm mildly in support, of this. Certainly no objection.

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Tom Harding
Sent: 15 January 2021 15:10
To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Committee review #368: Warn on prefix/suffix operators

Hi all,

Richard has proposed a small change to the previously accepted "Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing" proposal (whose current state is rendered here<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fproposals%2F0229-whitespace-bang-patterns.rst&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C76560bb645744aa5375008d8b967b535%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637463203409053387%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=TKmreV4ZQNfkuEQxQcW0RthF%2FZfY49TIOEIvwxNg70s%3D&reserved=0>), specifically to say that the described warning be triggered by -Wall and -Wcompat.
I think this is sensible and hopefully not particularly controversial, and I recommend that we accept.

The updated proposal may be viewed here<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgoldfirere%2Fghc-proposals%2Fblob%2F88690a542ada41dccd0f58d252ed6d392140034d%2Fproposals%2F0000-prefix-suffix-operators.rst%23proposed-change-specification&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C76560bb645744aa5375008d8b967b535%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637463203409063388%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=TIqqic9hrWYeYvO%2BPdfpIeq947WTXmlwRjmY7QxpEJ8%3D&reserved=0>; please reply with any thoughts/concerns!

Thanks,
Tom


On 9 Jan 2021, at 16:43, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:

Dear Committee,

this is your secretary speaking:

Warn on prefix/suffix operators
has been proposed by Richard
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/368<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F368&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C76560bb645744aa5375008d8b967b535%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637463203409063388%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=FbBvVvq8XeopvQxbsEG7Jm4xcWAh9LesgBAcAX0%2FMhw%3D&reserved=0>

This is an amendment to #229 (Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing),
see the PR description linked above for details.

I'll propose Tom as the shepherd.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Thanks,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
 mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
 http://www.joachim-breitner.de/


_______________________________________________
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jan 18 10:32:25 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 10:32:25 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

|  Happy Birthday Simon! I am very happy to have around in all things
|  GHC, and I wish you an great next year.

Thanks!  My parser failed on the second sentence, but sentiment analysis yielded positive results.  I don't *feel* like 63.

|  Unless someone shouts stop really soon now, I will finalize the
|  proposal (e.g. remove text that is less useful in the final version),
|  merge and announce later today

Can you share the final proposal with us? Currently it says "Proposed change: TBD" which isn't quite the final version.   Also the proposal doesn't have a motivation section.  Perhaps we should ensure that the proposal stands by itself.

In particular, we might want to articulate some of all of the criteria from
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0372-ghc-extensions.rst
(in the user manual too).  In particular

* They are a set of extensions that a team might reasonably want to be
  switched on all the time.

In particular: (a) stable and (b) conservative.  By (b) we exclude extensions like OverlappingInstances, which may be stable but we don't want to be on-by-default.

Or some summary anyway, so that users know what the intended use of the extension is.

Is there `-XNoGHC2021`, and if so what does it do?  Proposal should say.

Thanks

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-
|  bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 18 January 2021 08:15
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
|  
|  Hi,
|  
|  Am Montag, den 21.12.2020, 19:50 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
|  ghc-steering-committee:
|  > I think the period from now to 4 Jan doesn't count. Then we should
|  > allow a fortnight, say to 18 Jan (my birthday).
|  
|  that's today.
|  
|  Happy Birthday Simon! I am very happy to have around in all things
|  GHC, and I wish you an great next year.
|  
|  Unless someone shouts stop really soon now, I will finalize the
|  proposal (e.g. remove text that is less useful in the final version),
|  merge and announce later today.
|  
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
|  oachim-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C59a16e2f79
|  40454ffeaf08d8bb893386%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
|  7465545269819133%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
|  2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=zmp5VYuS7sEzA15
|  u2lLkRwSRY2PfcT4sTeRrKfeMTdI%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  .haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C59a16e2f7940454
|  ffeaf08d8bb893386%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374655
|  45269819133%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
|  IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=cxN%2FLQFpB9Eeqlw36T
|  wb5kBWmzCgDlIwTaoHwLs9xPo%3D&amp;reserved=0

From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 11:07:58 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:07:58 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 10:32 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee:
> Can you share the final proposal with us? Currently it says "Proposed
> change: TBD" which isn't quite the final version. '

Updated:
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/ghc2021/proposals/0000-ghc2021.rst#motivation


>   Also the proposal doesn't have a motivation section.  Perhaps we
> should ensure that the proposal stands by itself.

I added two paragraphs, but mostly pointing to the motivation for
GHC22xx in general, and adding one mentioning the particular
considerations for the _first_ of these.

I feel like that suffices, but if you’d like to elaborate, feel free to
edit that PR, or suggest changes on 
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/380/files

exclude extensions like OverlappingInstances, which may be stable but
we don't want to be on-by-default.

> [in the user manual too]
> Or some summary anyway, so that users know what the intended use of the extension is.

Sure, the actual implementation MR to GHC can give more guidance, but
usually that doesn’t need to be written down in detail in the GHc
proposal?

> Is there `-XNoGHC2021`, and if so what does it do?  Proposal should say.

The meta-proposal says

   This language version can be used as a language extension (with the
   sole effect of implying other language extensions), but also as a
   language versions in places where Haskell98 or Haskell2010 is valid
   (e.g. via Cabal’s default-language field).

   When ghc is used without an explicit language choice, the latest
   GHC20xx known to GHC is used. This applies in particular to uses of
   ghci.

and I’d hope that this answers such technical details (and that the GHC
devs will resolve obscure corner cases sensibly)?

It seems that ghc-8.8 does not know -XNoHaskell2010, so I would assume
that there is no -XNoHaskell2010 either. If there is a nice use case
for that, I think adding this a feature doesn't need committee
involvement, and can be done by GHC contributers.

Relatedly, at least one community member asked for a way to opt-into
the current “default” mode of GHC (which is neither Haskell98 nor
Haskell2010, e.g. it has NondecreasingIndentation).
He suggested simply calling that GHC2020. Whether that happens, and if
it’s called GHC2020 or OldDefault or something else, I’d also trust the
GHC devs.


Cheers,
Joachim


-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From marlowsd at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 15:01:14 2021
From: marlowsd at gmail.com (Simon Marlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:01:14 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 at 11:08, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

>
>
> > Is there `-XNoGHC2021`, and if so what does it do?  Proposal should say.
>
> The meta-proposal says
>
>    This language version can be used as a language extension (with the
>    sole effect of implying other language extensions), but also as a
>    language versions in places where Haskell98 or Haskell2010 is valid
>    (e.g. via Cabal’s default-language field).
>
>    When ghc is used without an explicit language choice, the latest
>    GHC20xx known to GHC is used. This applies in particular to uses of
>    ghci.
>
> and I’d hope that this answers such technical details (and that the GHC
> devs will resolve obscure corner cases sensibly)?
>
> It seems that ghc-8.8 does not know -XNoHaskell2010, so I would assume
> that there is no -XNoHaskell2010 either. If there is a nice use case
> for that, I think adding this a feature doesn't need committee
> involvement, and can be done by GHC contributers.
>

Currently Haskell98 and Haskell2010 are a special kind of LANGUAGE option
that can't be reversed, and later ones override earlier ones. I think we
should treat GHC2021 in the same way.


> Relatedly, at least one community member asked for a way to opt-into
> the current “default” mode of GHC (which is neither Haskell98 nor
> Haskell2010, e.g. it has NondecreasingIndentation).
> He suggested simply calling that GHC2020. Whether that happens, and if
> it’s called GHC2020 or OldDefault or something else, I’d also trust the
> GHC devs.
>

GHC2020 seems reasonable to me.

Cheers
Simon


>
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
>
>
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jan 18 15:05:37 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:05:37 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

Currently Haskell98 and Haskell2010 are a special kind of LANGUAGE option that can't be reversed, and later ones override earlier ones. I think we should treat GHC2021 in the same way.
Fine with me. I'd just like to see it specified in the proposal.

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Simon Marlow
Sent: 18 January 2021 15:01
To: Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 at 11:08, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:


> Is there `-XNoGHC2021`, and if so what does it do?  Proposal should say.

The meta-proposal says

   This language version can be used as a language extension (with the
   sole effect of implying other language extensions), but also as a
   language versions in places where Haskell98 or Haskell2010 is valid
   (e.g. via Cabal's default-language field).

   When ghc is used without an explicit language choice, the latest
   GHC20xx known to GHC is used. This applies in particular to uses of
   ghci.

and I'd hope that this answers such technical details (and that the GHC
devs will resolve obscure corner cases sensibly)?

It seems that ghc-8.8 does not know -XNoHaskell2010, so I would assume
that there is no -XNoHaskell2010 either. If there is a nice use case
for that, I think adding this a feature doesn't need committee
involvement, and can be done by GHC contributers.

Currently Haskell98 and Haskell2010 are a special kind of LANGUAGE option that can't be reversed, and later ones override earlier ones. I think we should treat GHC2021 in the same way.

Relatedly, at least one community member asked for a way to opt-into
the current "default" mode of GHC (which is neither Haskell98 nor
Haskell2010, e.g. it has NondecreasingIndentation).
He suggested simply calling that GHC2020. Whether that happens, and if
it's called GHC2020 or OldDefault or something else, I'd also trust the
GHC devs.

GHC2020 seems reasonable to me.

Cheers
Simon



Cheers,
Joachim


--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf30806e7570b4ca94cb408d8bbc1f425%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637465789560190043%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=nbmafO%2BrNiq6NfdEF42Sxn%2FzEVbSC753Lg%2FSYJu%2B0T4%3D&reserved=0>


_______________________________________________
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https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-committee&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf30806e7570b4ca94cb408d8bbc1f425%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637465789560200041%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=39P%2FPjuR2DDFWLZAZo8RsIEB1nH6rJdYRcmQUDF%2Bxfw%3D&reserved=0>
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From marlowsd at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 15:06:16 2021
From: marlowsd at gmail.com (Simon Marlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:06:16 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CANsrgP+8RwqBvBDbRirDUv_xARayqCgNeQBA+NHWLYhswyVQDA@mail.gmail.com>

LGTM too. Thanks Richard!

On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 at 16:39, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Dear Committee,
>
> after some refinement by some of you on the PR (thanks!), Richard would
> like us to vote on the bylaws.
>
> Please review
> https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/bylaws/committee.rst
> and also the other changes of
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360/files
>
> The maybe most prominent change is the introduction of term limits of 3
> years for all who are not Simon. This means that Richard, Iavor and me
> would, upon acceptance of this proposal, drop out, causing the size of
> the committee to drop below 9, thus triggering a call for nominations,
> for which we’d be eligible to re-nominiate ourself.
>
> Please have a closer look again, so that we have ironed out all
> wrinkles, and then very soon can vote about these bylaws.
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
>
>
> Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some time ago, I posted
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360, an attempt at
> crafting bylaws for this committee. Conversation has died down, and so I'd
> like to have a discussion that will lead to amendments and then eventual
> acceptance (of something).
> >
> > I think it's best for this discussion to be right on the PR, not this
> thread. However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a
> committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!) from
> everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Richard
> > _______________________________________________
> > ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From marlowsd at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 15:07:56 2021
From: marlowsd at gmail.com (Simon Marlow)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:07:56 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Status
In-Reply-To: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <7e68ac596d4bee083abdd26cd6c4e527882c50b6.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CANsrgPKqr5zEAT8fgmLUYyW6J818xE9yUq1VgbuCizSKJ=EsJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 at 22:14, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

>
>
> #313: Delimited continuation primops, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
>       Mostly positive reception, but there was discussion.
>       Simon, can this be accepted as it, or does it need more
> work/time/discussion?
>

Let's accept.

Cheers
Simon

> <https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee>
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 15:23:16 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:23:16 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #313: Delimited
 continuation primops, Shepherd: Simon Marlow
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB02221CB4041B56920A0ECB1DADCC1@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8f73b563dc640510a288261be00db36314669fff.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPLyQ2Se80DQBFFysRu6bt=3yA80VmEwX_CEvNES1Q+vOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB02221CB4041B56920A0ECB1DADCC1@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <046b90798ed80af1be7a9cef61facc1a3855e3e0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

accepted!

Cheers,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 15:29:50 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:29:50 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:05 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee:
> > Currently Haskell98 and Haskell2010 are a special kind of LANGUAGE option that can't be reversed, and later ones override earlier ones. I think we should treat GHC2021 in the same way.
> 
>
> Fine with me. I’d just like to see it specified in the proposal.

Added a sentence to that end.

Shall we hit our deadline, and merge and announce now? :-)

Cheers,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jan 18 15:48:35 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:48:35 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
In-Reply-To: <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

* The opening sentence "This this is the PR..." should be deleted
* Formatting bug in "GHC already treats MonadFailDesugaring.."
* Formatting bug in "The following deprecated extensions..."


Otherwise OK.

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-
|  bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 18 January 2021 15:30
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: How to proceed?
|  
|  Hi,
|  
|  Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:05 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
|  ghc-steering-committee:
|  > > Currently Haskell98 and Haskell2010 are a special kind of LANGUAGE
|  option that can't be reversed, and later ones override earlier ones. I
|  think we should treat GHC2021 in the same way.
|  >
|  >
|  > Fine with me. I'd just like to see it specified in the proposal.
|  
|  Added a sentence to that end.
|  
|  Shall we hit our deadline, and merge and announce now? :-)
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
|  oachim-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cb76e405163
|  8e4b0e29b208d8bbc5f0af%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
|  7465806136072159%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
|  2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=szDyl%2BUJZ0S6J
|  3CGuJbgUnDcf9l33TCoiIJ26y9wiZE%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  .haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cb76e4051638e4b0
|  e29b208d8bbc5f0af%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374658
|  06136072159%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
|  IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=695IvPga%2FMT2dj%2Bh
|  hH0BHc7AG91vtPK71zHZTcti84U%3D&amp;reserved=0

From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 16:15:32 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 17:15:32 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: merged!
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:48 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee:
> Otherwise OK.

In time to celebrate SPJs's birthday, we have come to a conclusion what
“GHC2021” should be. Thanks everybody!

We added 36 extensions to Haskell2010 and removed 2. The full list is
on
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0380-ghc2021.rst

We stayed slightly conservative, so I assume most of us have a few
extensions in the back of their head that they hope will get in the
next round (I do certainly do!). Don’t worry, you’ll get the chance!

I suggest that in the fall we come back to this point and see if we
_want_ to make GHC2022 the next one or if we want to wait longer. That
is then also a good time to revise the process, which went mostly fine,
could certainly have gone worse, but can definitely improved. (For
example, the voting can maybe be simplified somehow. And with all the
low-hanging fruit plucked, maybe we should not vote on all extensions,
but only on those nominated by a member… well, more on that in a year
:-)).

It will be interesting to see if GHC2021 will be adopted, how quickly
it will be adopted (libraries that care about backward compat will
probably be slow to adopt it), and whether it can change our perception
of Haskell.

With 9.0 already in the RC stage, I assume we will have missed that.
It’ll be up to the GHC devs to decide if adding this in a point release
is ok (and so can use this in 9.0.1), or if we’ll wait for 9.2.


Cheers, and a good GHC2021 to all of you.
Joachim


-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From trupill at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 18:27:47 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 13:27:47 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: merged!
In-Reply-To: <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOvGz_YFvxYQmX=fi7JBpq=euHOmbVN8azED_LG4=GNiNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 Jan 2021 at 17:15:32, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:48 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones via
> ghc-steering-committee:
>
> Otherwise OK.
>
>
> In time to celebrate SPJs's birthday, we have come to a conclusion what
> “GHC2021” should be. Thanks everybody!
>

Happy birthday, Simon! Thanks everybody, I’ve learnt a lot in these two
months, and I am super-happy with the result :)

>
> ...
>
> With 9.0 already in the RC stage, I assume we will have missed that.
> It’ll be up to the GHC devs to decide if adding this in a point release
> is ok (and so can use this in 9.0.1), or if we’ll wait for 9.2.
>

Who should be in charge of contacting them? It would be awesome if it could
make it into 9.0.2 as some kind of “preliminary feature”.
I guess Cabal should also be updated to have “default-language” updated.

Alejandro
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 19:23:31 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:23:31 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: merged!
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOvGz_YFvxYQmX=fi7JBpq=euHOmbVN8azED_LG4=GNiNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOvGz_YFvxYQmX=fi7JBpq=euHOmbVN8azED_LG4=GNiNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e76f28fb7f99b2dcd7d44bf335ea1aa00798cdcb.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 13:27 -0500 schrieb Alejandro Serrano Mena:
> > With 9.0 already in the RC stage, I assume we will have missed that.
> > It’ll be up to the GHC devs to decide if adding this in a point release
> > is ok (and so can use this in 9.0.1), or if we’ll wait for 9.2.
> 
> Who should be in charge of contacting them? It would be awesome if it could make it into 9.0.2 as some kind of “preliminary feature”.
> I guess Cabal should also be updated to have “default-language” updated.

I was just about to say “Thanks, looks like we have a volunteer”, but
that’d be a bit mean… so I at least opened a GHC issue for this:
https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19234

We can continue chatting about implementation stuff there.

Cheers,
Joachim

-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From trupill at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 20:01:18 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:01:18 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: merged!
In-Reply-To: <e76f28fb7f99b2dcd7d44bf335ea1aa00798cdcb.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOvGz_YFvxYQmX=fi7JBpq=euHOmbVN8azED_LG4=GNiNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e76f28fb7f99b2dcd7d44bf335ea1aa00798cdcb.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOsOHS9ZQdxXcnK7zQS_0G4bsffFr9s9d2fyE-qAYeyP4A@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 Jan 2021 at 20:23:31, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 13:27 -0500 schrieb Alejandro Serrano Mena:
>
> > With 9.0 already in the RC stage, I assume we will have missed that.
>
> > It’ll be up to the GHC devs to decide if adding this in a point release
>
> > is ok (and so can use this in 9.0.1), or if we’ll wait for 9.2.
>
>
> Who should be in charge of contacting them? It would be awesome if it
> could make it into 9.0.2 as some kind of “preliminary feature”.
>
> I guess Cabal should also be updated to have “default-language” updated.
>
>
> I was just about to say “Thanks, looks like we have a volunteer”, but
> that’d be a bit mean… so I at least opened a GHC issue for this:
> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19234
>

I am happy to volunteer for any work that needs to be done. I just didn’t
want to step on anybody’s toes...

>
> We can continue chatting about implementation stuff there.
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
>
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Mon Jan 18 20:07:43 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 21:07:43 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: merged!
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOsOHS9ZQdxXcnK7zQS_0G4bsffFr9s9d2fyE-qAYeyP4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c563ff7355172bc58ea8484dfc5cd8d8f1a558e.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <a1e57fd18840ee40583668d35f0968f284894264.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <eca375433d1e064b1d15250e94ed75a97d4432c0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222BECB56BB542DA367E61AADC09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <8d56ad33cf700f0d618fc99b6f9764b62e3169c1.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB0222351940964220107EB05DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <7882db9a8ae5ef22b8b88a91d16dc3f1efb5d3a0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPJNhtLru71yjHCs0yXK9AjK0j7M+3Pjjq3zONXE=QQz7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB022271BC34F34409E116F02DADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <345bb027f1c6832cdf0b60e3bf2af59380af4c58.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB02227FE448E0B7E086E87D8AADA49@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <ba56725c7434d9f9147f608277c7df57811a7833.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOvGz_YFvxYQmX=fi7JBpq=euHOmbVN8azED_LG4=GNiNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e76f28fb7f99b2dcd7d44bf335ea1aa00798cdcb.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOsOHS9ZQdxXcnK7zQS_0G4bsffFr9s9d2fyE-qAYeyP4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbb8f6740cd537319042882d648bd17e040521d0.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:01 -0500 schrieb Alejandro Serrano Mena:
> I am happy to volunteer for any work that needs to be done. I just
> didn’t want to step on anybody’s toes...

maybe see if the Cabal project needs to actively do something?

Cheers,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From trupill at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 21:03:20 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:03:20 -0500
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Committee review #368: Warn on
 prefix/suffix operators
In-Reply-To: <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
References: <1de9b874ff276009c7e95c86dd732ecd8cfc446f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <DC6B3956-5E5B-4BC2-ABB6-EDAE6B3AE72D@live.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOu_YVYxxyQREt0NaXN5=22K9BsLkV383=aCpXgvEC4vRw@mail.gmail.com>

 Looks sensible to me.

Alejandro

On 15 Jan 2021 at 16:09:59, Tom Harding <tomjharding at live.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Richard has proposed a small change to the previously accepted
> “Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing” proposal (whose current state is
> rendered here
> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0229-whitespace-bang-patterns.rst>),
> specifically to say that the described warning be triggered by -Wall and
> -Wcompat.
> I think this is sensible and hopefully not particularly controversial, and
> I recommend that we accept.
>
> The updated proposal may be viewed here
> <https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/88690a542ada41dccd0f58d252ed6d392140034d/proposals/0000-prefix-suffix-operators.rst#proposed-change-specification>; please
> reply with any thoughts/concerns!
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> On 9 Jan 2021, at 16:43, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> this is your secretary speaking:
>
> Warn on prefix/suffix operators
> has been proposed by Richard
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/368
>
> This is an amendment to #229 (Whitespace-sensitive operator parsing),
> see the PR description linked above for details.
>
> I’ll propose Tom as the shepherd.
>
> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process
>
> Thanks,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From trupill at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 11:18:23 2021
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 12:18:23 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
In-Reply-To: <010f0176ddcf0fbb-aee67b11-fd0d-4a26-9b8d-91ee67c1f8db-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQ=y_dN7c6PEWz8XsHx5Zhr1EUAwjcPFmo12fja37CTqVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <010f0176ddcf0fbb-aee67b11-fd0d-4a26-9b8d-91ee67c1f8db-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOvjUXz9X+F=uxjETY1HreRHLBEp4qjzRE3no7Rgy9ukKg@mail.gmail.com>

There are no more concerns left in the GitHub thread, and nobody has raised
any concerns. I think this proposal is ready for merge.

Alejandro

El El jue, 7 ene 2021 a las 18:05, Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev>
escribió:

> I'm in favor of this proposal, for the reasons Alejandro gives: it fills a
> gap, and it's about as minimal as we can have.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Spiwack, Arnaud <arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io>
> wrote:
>
> I have no real opinion either way. The meat of the proposal is in the
> choice of type families. Are they reasonable? Probably. So I'm probably in
> favour, though I could easily be swayed either way.
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 5:38 PM Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Committee,
>> This proposal adds a kind-level ‘Char’ in a similar way as other built-in
>> types, and an API to work with them and with Symbols.
>> My recommendation is to accept the proposal: it fills a gap in our
>> current kind-level machinery in the most minimal way.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alejandro
>>
>> On 7 Jan 2021 at 12:33:33, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Committee,
>>>
>>> this is your secretary speaking:
>>>
>>> The Char Kind
>>> has been proposed by Daniel Rogozin
>>> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/387
>>>
>>> https://github.com/serokell/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0000-char-kind.rst
>>>
>>> I’ll propose Alejandro as the shepherd.
>>>
>>> Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
>>> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joachim
>>> --
>>> Joachim Breitner
>>>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>>>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
>
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Fri Jan 22 14:34:43 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:34:43 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #387: The Char kind,
 Shepherd: Alejandro
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOvjUXz9X+F=uxjETY1HreRHLBEp4qjzRE3no7Rgy9ukKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <836b9e44c8d20f5333cc16eafc9a3b3873fd261a.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOuf66yO9s_=1i0NqXdGk6EFqfMMqPvVtjB=f2L7kQHYbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQ=y_dN7c6PEWz8XsHx5Zhr1EUAwjcPFmo12fja37CTqVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <010f0176ddcf0fbb-aee67b11-fd0d-4a26-9b8d-91ee67c1f8db-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOvjUXz9X+F=uxjETY1HreRHLBEp4qjzRE3no7Rgy9ukKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d9ba7923311ce3d15099194a3c2a07c133df2239.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Am Freitag, den 22.01.2021, 12:18 +0100 schrieb Alejandro Serrano Mena:
> There are no more concerns left in the GitHub thread, and nobody has raised any concerns. I think this proposal is ready for merge.

Merged


-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Fri Jan 22 14:37:50 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:37:50 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Steering Committee bylaws
In-Reply-To: <CANsrgP+8RwqBvBDbRirDUv_xARayqCgNeQBA+NHWLYhswyVQDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f0174da61781d-6475f729-63d4-4880-8c26-a0d22a85cc29-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <97faef8724e0a132563443333e129f31d0de1aaa.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgP+8RwqBvBDbRirDUv_xARayqCgNeQBA+NHWLYhswyVQDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4d15abfb2d6899ad148d8c44ec92afd7e0781457.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

I think we have sufficient LGTMs now, will merge.

Cheers,
Joachim

Am Montag, den 18.01.2021, 15:06 +0000 schrieb Simon Marlow:
> LGTM too. Thanks Richard!
> 
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 at 16:39, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> > Dear Committee,
> > 
> > after some refinement by some of you on the PR (thanks!), Richard would
> > like us to vote on the bylaws.
> > 
> > Please review
> > https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/bylaws/committee.rst
> > and also the other changes of
> > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360/files
> > 
> > The maybe most prominent change is the introduction of term limits of 3
> > years for all who are not Simon. This means that Richard, Iavor and me
> > would, upon acceptance of this proposal, drop out, causing the size of
> > the committee to drop below 9, thus triggering a call for nominations,
> > for which we’d be eligible to re-nominiate ourself.
> > 
> > Please have a closer look again, so that we have ironed out all
> > wrinkles, and then very soon can vote about these bylaws.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Joachim
> > 
> > 
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2020, 15:00 +0000 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > Some time ago, I posted https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/360, an attempt at crafting bylaws for this committee. Conversation has died down, and so I'd like to have a discussion that will lead to amendments and then eventual acceptance (of something).
> > > 
> > > I think it's best for this discussion to be right on the PR, not this thread. However, given that this PR is all about how we function, as a committee, I would like to see participation (ideally, agreement!) from everyone here before proceeding, even if it's just a LGTM.
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > Richard
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> > > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> > > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
> > _______________________________________________
> > ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Fri Jan 22 14:49:07 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:49:07 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor, Richard,
	Me
Message-ID: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear committee,


with the refined bylaws merged at
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/committee.rst
we now have a three year term limit.

Luckily I have always tracked when each of us started, at
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#who-is-the-committee
so it is easy to see that the following members’s terms have expired:

   Iavor, Richard, Simon², me

The rules are slightly different for the Simons (“key members”) and the
rest of us.

Simons:
Do you want to stay on the committee?
If you say yes, the committee does a simple majority vote to confirm
that.

Iavor, Richard, Joachim:
We three are lame ducks now: We are now “expiring members”, we are only
on the committee until the end of now triggered public call for
nominations. We three are eligible to re-nominate ourselves, of course.

With three expiring members we are down to 7 active members (less if
one of the Simons does not want to stay on). This means a call for
nominations is triggered now. I think I’ll send it out on the weekend.
The text of the previous was this:
https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2019-December/025880.html
Let me know if you want me to use a different text.

Cheers,
Joachim



-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Fri Jan 22 14:50:24 2021
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 14:50:24 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor,
 Richard, Me
In-Reply-To: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB0222FA3E6C06C2454C20460EADA09@VI1PR83MB0222.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

|  Simons:
|  Do you want to stay on the committee?

Yes, I am willing

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-
|  bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 22 January 2021 14:49
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor,
|  Richard, Me
|  
|  Dear committee,
|  
|  
|  with the refined bylaws merged at
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fcommittee.rst&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%4
|  0microsoft.com%7Ca3b6db16442849aec8dc08d8bee4e957%7C72f988bf86f141af91
|  ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637469237685393989%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey
|  JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C100
|  0&amp;sdata=11IpEwX8yjj6IuGpXnBAHnZq7inWxRFDswT8EfSJwkg%3D&amp;reserve
|  d=0
|  we now have a three year term limit.
|  
|  Luckily I have always tracked when each of us started, at
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
|  ub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%23who-is-the-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca3b6db16442849a
|  ec8dc08d8bee4e957%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374692
|  37685393989%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
|  IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=E6ZFcCS%2FS7TVq9be97
|  bEiHV1v1WhpFE49Dfc751Oy94%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  so it is easy to see that the following members's terms have expired:
|  
|     Iavor, Richard, Simon², me
|  
|  The rules are slightly different for the Simons ("key members") and
|  the rest of us.
|  
|  Simons:
|  Do you want to stay on the committee?
|  If you say yes, the committee does a simple majority vote to confirm
|  that.
|  
|  Iavor, Richard, Joachim:
|  We three are lame ducks now: We are now "expiring members", we are
|  only on the committee until the end of now triggered public call for
|  nominations. We three are eligible to re-nominate ourselves, of
|  course.
|  
|  With three expiring members we are down to 7 active members (less if
|  one of the Simons does not want to stay on). This means a call for
|  nominations is triggered now. I think I'll send it out on the weekend.
|  The text of the previous was this:
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  .haskell.org%2Fpipermail%2Fhaskell%2F2019-
|  December%2F025880.html&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca3
|  b6db16442849aec8dc08d8bee4e957%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%
|  7C0%7C637469237685393989%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
|  CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=snCHSpT
|  1BzvMBrMRPdXYLdqqiibAJoiKCyiLs4c8pH8%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  Let me know if you want me to use a different text.
|  
|  Cheers,
|  Joachim
|  
|  
|  
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j
|  oachim-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca3b6db1644
|  2849aec8dc08d8bee4e957%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
|  7469237685393989%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
|  2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=umgJNSOayZoYjG3
|  pRNHHyYujCoMUDkw8lzRS09aY6sY%3D&amp;reserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail
|  .haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca3b6db16442849a
|  ec8dc08d8bee4e957%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6374692
|  37685393989%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
|  IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=9FDJJUyhZCxwYMzIeKiF
|  bMIbXRM0M7N9ujsKb2Jwsj4%3D&amp;reserved=0

From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Sat Jan 23 09:39:56 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 10:39:56 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor,
 Richard, Me
In-Reply-To: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <c486301f4658152645c2f33af6c7b03558786019.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

Am Freitag, den 22.01.2021, 15:49 +0100 schrieb Joachim Breitner:
> With three expiring members we are down to 7 active members (less if
> one of the Simons does not want to stay on). This means a call for
> nominations is triggered now. I think I’ll send it out on the weekend.
> The text of the previous was this:
> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2019-December/025880.html
> Let me know if you want me to use a different text.

oh, I just noticed that this doesn't make sense: We do the voting and
deliberations in private, because those voted upon should not see that
discussion. But we will possibly be voting on re-admitting Iavor,
Richard and me. It doesn’t then make sense for the three of us to take
part in voting, nor for me to run the vote!

We should probably clarify the bylaws on that point: Do expiring
members take part in the nomination process?

Anyways, it looks like someone else needs to run this nomination round.
(i.e. send out the call for nomiations, collect the nominations, send
them in private mail to all active members, collect the votes, and
announce the result). Any volunteer?

Cheers,
Joachim


-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From rae at richarde.dev  Sat Jan 23 15:29:22 2021
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 15:29:22 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor,
 Richard, Me
In-Reply-To: <c486301f4658152645c2f33af6c7b03558786019.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <c486301f4658152645c2f33af6c7b03558786019.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <010f01772fdd349a-bc6bba9b-7d63-4155-a588-7d76b0c7ad27-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>

I think this is clear(ish) in the written bylaws:

> Continuing members of the committee vote on new membership via a ranked voting system;

NB: "Continuing". Though I suppose that could be confusing, as we don't yet know which members are continuing. Perhaps "non-expiring" would be better.

> When the secretary's term is expiring (but that individual wishes to stay on the committee), one co-chair fills in for the secretary to run this process.

Though, I suppose it would probably make sense to change that second sentence to allow any other committee member to step in, instead of placing the burden on a co-chair.

These rules also expose the fact of whether or not the secretary wishes to continue. Maybe it should be rephrased to allow the secretary to delegate even if they are also stepping down, just so that they can cloak their decision.

I will recommend a few tweaks later today.

Richard

> On Jan 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Am Freitag, den 22.01.2021, 15:49 +0100 schrieb Joachim Breitner:
>> With three expiring members we are down to 7 active members (less if
>> one of the Simons does not want to stay on). This means a call for
>> nominations is triggered now. I think I’ll send it out on the weekend.
>> The text of the previous was this:
>> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2019-December/025880.html
>> Let me know if you want me to use a different text.
> 
> oh, I just noticed that this doesn't make sense: We do the voting and
> deliberations in private, because those voted upon should not see that
> discussion. But we will possibly be voting on re-admitting Iavor,
> Richard and me. It doesn’t then make sense for the three of us to take
> part in voting, nor for me to run the vote!
> 
> We should probably clarify the bylaws on that point: Do expiring
> members take part in the nomination process?
> 
> Anyways, it looks like someone else needs to run this nomination round.
> (i.e. send out the call for nomiations, collect the nominations, send
> them in private mail to all active members, collect the votes, and
> announce the result). Any volunteer?
> 
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joachim Breitner
>  mail at joachim-breitner.de
>  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee


From marlowsd at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 09:35:02 2021
From: marlowsd at gmail.com (Simon Marlow)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:35:02 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Expiring members: Simons, Iavor,
 Richard, Me
In-Reply-To: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <CANsrgPKubfWFdb_yORMtnVkyk6i6jtqD0YehZVMtZgSHX_G4VA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 14:49, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
wrote:

> Dear committee,
>
>
> with the refined bylaws merged at
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/committee.rst
> we now have a three year term limit.
>
> Luckily I have always tracked when each of us started, at
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#who-is-the-committee
> so it is easy to see that the following members’s terms have expired:
>
>    Iavor, Richard, Simon², me
>
> The rules are slightly different for the Simons (“key members”) and the
> rest of us.
>
> Simons:
> Do you want to stay on the committee?
>

Yes please, if you'll still have me :)

Cheers
Simon




> If you say yes, the committee does a simple majority vote to confirm
> that.
>
> Iavor, Richard, Joachim:
> We three are lame ducks now: We are now “expiring members”, we are only
> on the committee until the end of now triggered public call for
> nominations. We three are eligible to re-nominate ourselves, of course.
>
> With three expiring members we are down to 7 active members (less if
> one of the Simons does not want to stay on). This means a call for
> nominations is triggered now. I think I’ll send it out on the weekend.
> The text of the previous was this:
> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2019-December/025880.html
> Let me know if you want me to use a different text.
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
>
>
>
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Tue Jan 26 09:55:47 2021
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:55:47 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Voting on the Simons
In-Reply-To: <CANsrgPKubfWFdb_yORMtnVkyk6i6jtqD0YehZVMtZgSHX_G4VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPKubfWFdb_yORMtnVkyk6i6jtqD0YehZVMtZgSHX_G4VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b3347b13dc485cb4a61500720a440a82a64b4fe.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi

> > Simons:
> > Do you want to stay on the committee?

Am Freitag, den 22.01.2021, 14:50 +0000 schrieb Simon Peyton Jones:
> Yes, I am willing

Am Dienstag, den 26.01.2021, 09:35 +0000 schrieb Simon Marlow:
> > 
> Yes please, if you'll still have me :)

Thanks! The bylaws indicate

> If either wishes to continue serving on the committee when their
>
terms end, and if the majority of the rest of the committee supports
> this outcome, no public nomination process needs to take place to
> replace them.

It doesn’t say whether the vote is public or private,
but it is customary to hold votes about people in private. In
particular, the person voted on should not see the votes.

Therefore I invite everyone to send their vote to me by direct mail.
Please indicate for both Simons whether you support them continuing.
Sim
ons: I guess you get to vote on each other.

Once I have enough votes to determine the outcome, I will announce it
here (anonymously, i.e. just he tally).

I also assume that “rest of the committee” includes the expiring
members, because why not.

The bylaws are not fully clear on whether this vote extends their term
just until the next nomination round, or by another three years. But if
one understands this as a short-cut through the full re-nomination
process, then I conclude it means a new three year term starts for
them.

(Is this process a bit silly? But I guess a bit of ceremony is good.)


BTW, still looking for a volunteer to run the main nomination process.


Cheers,
Joachim



-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From rae at richarde.dev  Wed Jan 27 19:02:57 2021
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:02:57 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Voting on the Simons
In-Reply-To: <3b3347b13dc485cb4a61500720a440a82a64b4fe.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPKubfWFdb_yORMtnVkyk6i6jtqD0YehZVMtZgSHX_G4VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3b3347b13dc485cb4a61500720a440a82a64b4fe.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <010f0177453a2fed-b7ad4912-d9ea-4948-a421-13d6fcf7c30d-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>



> On Jan 26, 2021, at 4:55 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> 
> The bylaws are not fully clear on whether this vote extends their term
> just until the next nomination round, or by another three years. But if
> one understands this as a short-cut through the full re-nomination
> process, then I conclude it means a new three year term starts for
> them.

Good point. https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/398

> 
> (Is this process a bit silly? But I guess a bit of ceremony is good.)

I don't think it's silly at all: it reifies the notion that no one is a committee member for life. Right now, I don't imagine there is contention, but having a process such as we do is good hygiene in preparing for a potential future where there is contention.

Richard

From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:02:28 2021
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 14:02:28 -0800
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Voting on the Simons
In-Reply-To: <010f0177453a2fed-b7ad4912-d9ea-4948-a421-13d6fcf7c30d-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <b4f5e13cebd0f6d9775d8563540d30dc0d00ad52.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CANsrgPKubfWFdb_yORMtnVkyk6i6jtqD0YehZVMtZgSHX_G4VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3b3347b13dc485cb4a61500720a440a82a64b4fe.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f0177453a2fed-b7ad4912-d9ea-4948-a421-13d6fcf7c30d-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nurKODNkTu8J8Huhegzg1Wd_Yp5TFNC44z7cC+PVCv0bJg@mail.gmail.com>

I think it is silly.

Anyway, I support the Simons' positions as chairs, and I'd be happy to
either stay on the committee or step down, as you guys decide.
-Iavor

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:03 AM Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 26, 2021, at 4:55 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > The bylaws are not fully clear on whether this vote extends their term
> > just until the next nomination round, or by another three years. But if
> > one understands this as a short-cut through the full re-nomination
> > process, then I conclude it means a new three year term starts for
> > them.
>
> Good point. https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/398
>
> >
> > (Is this process a bit silly? But I guess a bit of ceremony is good.)
>
> I don't think it's silly at all: it reifies the notion that no one is a
> committee member for life. Right now, I don't imagine there is contention,
> but having a process such as we do is good hygiene in preparing for a
> potential future where there is contention.
>
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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