From rae at richarde.dev  Mon Jul 13 11:58:26 2020
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:58:26 +0100
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] committee constitution
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuqJK6iPOMwq8defifRXyWsuDfHDTF0asx4jC2VVVfCx2w@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAGK9nup+JHEO8ZX+jfGc5Syt_Bv8LrJsV6EdyNOVH2paKNsx-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9B4EE629-6BB4-41EE-82C6-2FCB89F1F43A@richarde.dev>
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 <CAGK9nuqJK6iPOMwq8defifRXyWsuDfHDTF0asx4jC2VVVfCx2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB058DF3-6A38-411B-BEC0-0512E589FBF1@richarde.dev>

Resuming this thread now that the POPL deadline has passed.

> On Jun 24, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am not really keen on putting these labels on folks, so my preference would be to not bake this into the process.
> 
> I am also not sure what problem we are solving though.

That's a good point. The immediate problem is that I worry that some accepted proposals have important ramifications for Haddock, and we have done a poor job at considering these ramifications. We could solve that problem directly, by (for example) adding a new required section to proposals. But I see this problem as a symptom of the lack of diverse representation on the steering committee. (Here, I am talking about diversity in terms of interests/areas of active engagement, not in terms of identity/background. Diversity in terms of identity/background is another important problem, and arguably more pernicious, but not one I am addressing in this thread.) Recalling that we started this steering committee with a goal of diverse representation, I thought we should perhaps return to that, in the hopes that the committee can better represent the community.

I admit that, beyond Haddock, I do not have a concrete example of actions we have taken in which we're not representing the community. So you might say that I have a solution in search of a problem, but I do think addressing this would be good for our committee (and for the language).

----------

To summarize where we are in this thread:

I asked:
> 
> How should we ensure that various constituencies are well served by our process?
> 
>  A. By having shepherds reach out to community members external to the committee who can share their expert opinion
>  B. By maintaining a list of constituencies that the committee membership covers (ideally)

I said B
Vitaly said A+B
Joachim said A
Iavor said neither

Do others have opinions?

Thanks,
Richard

> Iavor
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 04:58 Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de <mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Mittwoch, den 24.06.2020, 11:57 +0100 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
> >  A. By having shepherds reach out to community members external to the committee who can share their expert opinion
> >  B. By maintaining a list of constituencies that the committee membership covers (ideally)
> > 
> > These can be combined, or we could do neither. (Right now, we do neither.)
> 
> I think we have sometimes used A. For example with the proposal about
> Arrow something, we (or the author?) reached out the likely affected
> library authors.
> 
> I am slightly favoring A (less formal, less process overhead, maybe
> more flexible).
> 
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> 
> -- 
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de <mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/ <http://www.joachim-breitner.de/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org <mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee <https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee

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From trupill at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:12:12 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:12:12 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] committee constitution
In-Reply-To: <AB058DF3-6A38-411B-BEC0-0512E589FBF1@richarde.dev>
References: <91892A59-2435-47EC-96AF-CAA98A3CA7A7@richarde.dev>
 <VI1PR83MB042969B8D6B11620D12EC684AD980@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF3RzK8zBjmu83GkzHXHifa5sUV1oXvjgnxOW=pW4kCkrsmVJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nup+JHEO8ZX+jfGc5Syt_Bv8LrJsV6EdyNOVH2paKNsx-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9B4EE629-6BB4-41EE-82C6-2FCB89F1F43A@richarde.dev>
 <CANsrgPJH=-b35wou+Y9aWjSfWPYZC-YrMV3Zz+nmKq3Ug6MK5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <2A18F347-EE12-4423-B766-3857EBBA4E86@richarde.dev>
 <bac4ec0938e7a19ed01c4d27748cb71a293585e7.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAGK9nuqJK6iPOMwq8defifRXyWsuDfHDTF0asx4jC2VVVfCx2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <AB058DF3-6A38-411B-BEC0-0512E589FBF1@richarde.dev>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOvcQqp2wshXmRyY9NFFibgvhCf65oXsNWSNOf_1miiKpw@mail.gmail.com>

El lun., 13 jul. 2020 a las 13:58, Richard Eisenberg (<rae at richarde.dev>)
escribió:

>
>
> To summarize where we are in this thread:
>
> I asked:
>
>
> How should we ensure that various constituencies are well served by our
> process?
>
>  A. By having shepherds reach out to community members external to the
> committee who can share their expert opinion
>  B. By maintaining a list of constituencies that the committee membership
> covers (ideally)
>
>
> I said B
> Vitaly said A+B
> Joachim said A
> Iavor said neither
>
> Do others have opinions?
>
>
I lean towards A, but of course not having to see external members and have
all stakeholders in the Committee would be great too.

Alejandro
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Mon Jul 13 22:55:22 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 22:55:22 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] committee constitution
In-Reply-To: <AB058DF3-6A38-411B-BEC0-0512E589FBF1@richarde.dev>
References: <91892A59-2435-47EC-96AF-CAA98A3CA7A7@richarde.dev>
 <VI1PR83MB042969B8D6B11620D12EC684AD980@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF3RzK8zBjmu83GkzHXHifa5sUV1oXvjgnxOW=pW4kCkrsmVJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nup+JHEO8ZX+jfGc5Syt_Bv8LrJsV6EdyNOVH2paKNsx-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9B4EE629-6BB4-41EE-82C6-2FCB89F1F43A@richarde.dev>
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 <2A18F347-EE12-4423-B766-3857EBBA4E86@richarde.dev>
 <bac4ec0938e7a19ed01c4d27748cb71a293585e7.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAGK9nuqJK6iPOMwq8defifRXyWsuDfHDTF0asx4jC2VVVfCx2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <AB058DF3-6A38-411B-BEC0-0512E589FBF1@richarde.dev>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB042940D62A8FB7AC0515D891AD600@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

I think it'd be good to have a list of constituencies that we seek to represent, provided we don't bind ourselves to always having a rep for each such constituency.  That is, it's one of the criteria we use when seeking and evaluating new nominations.  But there are others.

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Richard Eisenberg
Sent: 13 July 2020 12:58
To: Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>; Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] committee constitution

Resuming this thread now that the POPL deadline has passed.

On Jun 24, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com<mailto:iavor.diatchki at gmail.com>> wrote:

I am not really keen on putting these labels on folks, so my preference would be to not bake this into the process.

I am also not sure what problem we are solving though.

That's a good point. The immediate problem is that I worry that some accepted proposals have important ramifications for Haddock, and we have done a poor job at considering these ramifications. We could solve that problem directly, by (for example) adding a new required section to proposals. But I see this problem as a symptom of the lack of diverse representation on the steering committee. (Here, I am talking about diversity in terms of interests/areas of active engagement, not in terms of identity/background. Diversity in terms of identity/background is another important problem, and arguably more pernicious, but not one I am addressing in this thread.) Recalling that we started this steering committee with a goal of diverse representation, I thought we should perhaps return to that, in the hopes that the committee can better represent the community.

I admit that, beyond Haddock, I do not have a concrete example of actions we have taken in which we're not representing the community. So you might say that I have a solution in search of a problem, but I do think addressing this would be good for our committee (and for the language).

----------

To summarize where we are in this thread:

I asked:

How should we ensure that various constituencies are well served by our process?

 A. By having shepherds reach out to community members external to the committee who can share their expert opinion
 B. By maintaining a list of constituencies that the committee membership covers (ideally)

I said B
Vitaly said A+B
Joachim said A
Iavor said neither

Do others have opinions?

Thanks,
Richard

Iavor

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 04:58 Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>> wrote:
Hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 24.06.2020, 11:57 +0100 schrieb Richard Eisenberg:
>  A. By having shepherds reach out to community members external to the committee who can share their expert opinion
>  B. By maintaining a list of constituencies that the committee membership covers (ideally)
>
> These can be combined, or we could do neither. (Right now, we do neither.)

I think we have sometimes used A. For example with the proposal about
Arrow something, we (or the author?) reached out the likely affected
library authors.

I am slightly favoring A (less formal, less process overhead, maybe
more flexible).

Cheers,
Joachim

--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cd4828ab44ada4853453708d827241770%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302383257929402&sdata=vutR16mplXczPWP50WcS6ua8%2BdU2%2Bgo60%2BB%2B0rJMwn0%3D&reserved=0>


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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Wed Jul 15 07:58:14 2020
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:58:14 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
	rec: accept
Message-ID: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

a refinement to the NegativeLiterals extension has been proposed by
Vladislav Zavialov (int-index).

https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/344
https://github.com/int-index/ghc-proposals/blob/negative-literals-improved/proposals/0000-negative-literals-improved.md


He noticed that

  x-1

parses as

  x (-1)

which is probably not what people expect. With this change it would be
parsed as

  x - 1

by requiring that a negative literal may not be preceded by a “closing
toking”.

Nice side effect: This makes NegativeLiterals a subset of
LexicalNegation (according to the author).

The proposal has been received positively by the crowd on Github.


I suggest we accept that proposal.

Cheers,
Joachim


-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From rae at richarde.dev  Wed Jul 15 09:07:13 2020
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:07:13 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
 rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>


> On Jul 15, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> 
> I suggest we accept that proposal.

+1

Yes, let's accept -- and if we act quickly, it can be so for 8.12.

Thanks,
Richard
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From trupill at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 09:15:56 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 11:15:56 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
	rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>

+1

This has traditionally been a pain point for Haskell newcomers, so any fix
is welcome.

El El mié, 15 jul 2020 a las 11:07, Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev>
escribió:

>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
>
> I suggest we accept that proposal.
>
>
> +1
>
> Yes, let's accept -- and if we act quickly, it can be so for 8.12.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Wed Jul 15 16:04:08 2020
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:04:08 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
	rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>

I've got no strong opinion. But it does sound reasonable to me.

Maybe this should also be a signal to deprecate NegativeLiterals in favour
of LexicalNegation.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:16 AM Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
wrote:

> +1
>
> This has traditionally been a pain point for Haskell newcomers, so any fix
> is welcome.
>
> El El mié, 15 jul 2020 a las 11:07, Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev>
> escribió:
>
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I suggest we accept that proposal.
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Yes, let's accept -- and if we act quickly, it can be so for 8.12.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Richard
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 16:37:19 2020
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:37:19 -0700
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
	rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I understand the problem, but let me make sure I understand the solution,
as the proposal is rather terse and refers to the other proposal, that
introduces the exotic lexing scheme.

So am I right in understanding that `f-1` will lex as `f - 1`, but `f -1`
will lext as `f (-1)`?   The reason this would work like that is because
the "white space" token before the `-` is not "closing" and so we know to
parse a negative literal.

Just as a note, I never quite understood how we plan to implement #229---is
it supposed to be done through state in the lexer, or do we have a simple
lexer that keeps all tokens, including white space, and then write a
post-processing function to glue and rejigger tokens?

-Iavor




On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 9:05 AM Spiwack, Arnaud <arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io>
wrote:

> I've got no strong opinion. But it does sound reasonable to me.
>
> Maybe this should also be a signal to deprecate NegativeLiterals in favour
> of LexicalNegation.
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:16 AM Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> This has traditionally been a pain point for Haskell newcomers, so any
>> fix is welcome.
>>
>> El El mié, 15 jul 2020 a las 11:07, Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev>
>> escribió:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest we accept that proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Yes, let's accept -- and if we act quickly, it can be so for 8.12.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Richard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Tue Jul 21 15:59:47 2020
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:59:47 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #343: BangPatterns by
	default, Shepherd: Simon PJ
Message-ID: <eaf48f0bad21b9135039dd6aefca5647be896e86.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Dear Committee,

this is your secretary speaking:

BangPatterns by default
has been proposed by AndreasPK
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343
https://github.com/AndreasPK/ghc-proposals/blob/bang_by_default/proposals/0343-bang-by-default.rst

I propose Simon PJ as the shepherd, as this affects a relatively
fundamental principle of our work so far (all changes are guarded by
language extensions), and accepting/rejecting this proposal likely has
precedence character.

Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in 
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals#committee-process

Thanks,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Tue Jul 21 16:37:41 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:37:41 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #343: BangPatterns
	by	default, Shepherd: Simon PJ
In-Reply-To: <eaf48f0bad21b9135039dd6aefca5647be896e86.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <eaf48f0bad21b9135039dd6aefca5647be896e86.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB04299105CB365DF558550278AD780@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Committee

This is a tiny proposal, just about the default setting of -XBangPatterns.  My instinct is that it's just not worth making a tiny change like this, but I'd love to know what you think.

Do respond on the main PR
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343
as Iavor has already done

Simon

|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
|  On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
|  Sent: 21 July 2020 17:00
|  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #343: BangPatterns by
|  default, Shepherd: Simon PJ
|  
|  Dear Committee,
|  
|  this is your secretary speaking:
|  
|  BangPatterns by default
|  has been proposed by AndreasPK
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
|  com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fpull%2F343&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cacffe
|  b35447f4ba9456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C
|  637309441700840887&amp;sdata=DvattRJD5MpLsbjEBGTiTq9IEDkV2bRSjgtCz9JM5fE%
|  3D&amp;reserved=0
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
|  com%2FAndreasPK%2Fghc-
|  proposals%2Fblob%2Fbang_by_default%2Fproposals%2F0343-bang-by-
|  default.rst&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cacffeb35447f4ba9
|  456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63730944170
|  0840887&amp;sdata=gGweQd2bSpHn4UYpG02Lm7pP25hoT6inv%2BFDkxe1Obo%3D&amp;re
|  served=0
|  
|  I propose Simon PJ as the shepherd, as this affects a relatively
|  fundamental principle of our work so far (all changes are guarded by
|  language extensions), and accepting/rejecting this proposal likely has
|  precedence character.
|  
|  Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
|  com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%23committee-
|  process&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cacffeb35447f4ba9456d
|  08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637309441700840
|  887&amp;sdata=P7jjLLDizkGetxIUD3AZBuRB5zRf5zpI2HyRjXw%2FNoE%3D&amp;reserv
|  ed=0
|  
|  Thanks,
|  Joachim
|  --
|  Joachim Breitner
|    mail at joachim-breitner.de
|  
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joac
|  him-
|  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cacffeb35447f4
|  ba9456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63730944
|  1700850887&amp;sdata=eaEsIL6UbcKA1ugKLNQTbIPOOZK3glcBEVeOUP13ZnY%3D&amp;r
|  eserved=0
|  
|  
|  _______________________________________________
|  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
|  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
|  https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.ha
|  skell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
|  committee&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cacffeb35447f4ba945
|  6d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6373094417008
|  50887&amp;sdata=ra1pil4SrVNP8%2BsXAFDlLUteroEvgUqrPyNio%2FYjF1Y%3D&amp;re
|  served=0

From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 16:47:38 2020
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 09:47:38 -0700
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #343: BangPatterns by
 default, Shepherd: Simon PJ
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB04299105CB365DF558550278AD780@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <eaf48f0bad21b9135039dd6aefca5647be896e86.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <VI1PR83MB04299105CB365DF558550278AD780@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuoqoqqn8C-mhyZ597WYJkJ5Pskbi9f_ZVO0BD8Eo9tWOg@mail.gmail.com>

I added my thoughts to the comment thread on github, but I agree that, as
is, this is not worth the trouble.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 9:37 AM Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org> wrote:

> Dear Committee
>
> This is a tiny proposal, just about the default setting of
> -XBangPatterns.  My instinct is that it's just not worth making a tiny
> change like this, but I'd love to know what you think.
>
> Do respond on the main PR
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343
> as Iavor has already done
>
> Simon
>
> |  -----Original Message-----
> |  From: ghc-steering-committee <
> ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
> |  On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner
> |  Sent: 21 July 2020 17:00
> |  To: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> |  Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #343: BangPatterns by
> |  default, Shepherd: Simon PJ
> |
> |  Dear Committee,
> |
> |  this is your secretary speaking:
> |
> |  BangPatterns by default
> |  has been proposed by AndreasPK
> |
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> |  com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-
> |  proposals%2Fpull%2F343&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com
> %7Cacffe
> |
> b35447f4ba9456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C
> |
> 637309441700840887&amp;sdata=DvattRJD5MpLsbjEBGTiTq9IEDkV2bRSjgtCz9JM5fE%
> |  3D&amp;reserved=0
> |
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> |  com%2FAndreasPK%2Fghc-
> |  proposals%2Fblob%2Fbang_by_default%2Fproposals%2F0343-bang-by-
> |  default.rst&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com
> %7Cacffeb35447f4ba9
> |
> 456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63730944170
> |
> 0840887&amp;sdata=gGweQd2bSpHn4UYpG02Lm7pP25hoT6inv%2BFDkxe1Obo%3D&amp;re
> |  served=0
> |
> |  I propose Simon PJ as the shepherd, as this affects a relatively
> |  fundamental principle of our work so far (all changes are guarded by
> |  language extensions), and accepting/rejecting this proposal likely has
> |  precedence character.
> |
> |  Please guide us to a conclusion as outlined in
> |
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> |  com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%23committee-
> |  process&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com
> %7Cacffeb35447f4ba9456d
> |
> 08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637309441700840
> |
> 887&amp;sdata=P7jjLLDizkGetxIUD3AZBuRB5zRf5zpI2HyRjXw%2FNoE%3D&amp;reserv
> |  ed=0
> |
> |  Thanks,
> |  Joachim
> |  --
> |  Joachim Breitner
> |    mail at joachim-breitner.de
> |
> |
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joac
> |  him-
> |  breitner.de%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com
> %7Cacffeb35447f4
> |
> ba9456d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63730944
> |
> 1700850887&amp;sdata=eaEsIL6UbcKA1ugKLNQTbIPOOZK3glcBEVeOUP13ZnY%3D&amp;r
> |  eserved=0
> |
> |
> |  _______________________________________________
> |  ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> |  ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> |
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.ha
> |  skell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-
> |  committee&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com
> %7Cacffeb35447f4ba945
> |
> 6d08d82d8f8347%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6373094417008
> |
> 50887&amp;sdata=ra1pil4SrVNP8%2BsXAFDlLUteroEvgUqrPyNio%2FYjF1Y%3D&amp;re
> |  served=0
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Wed Jul 22 12:43:07 2020
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:43:07 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
 rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65bd9375a6259aaed4296c78c8d1e1cf28d07a9f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

I guess someone needs to respond here :-)

Am Mittwoch, den 15.07.2020, 09:37 -0700 schrieb Iavor Diatchki:
> I understand the problem, but let me make sure I understand the
> solution, as the proposal is rather terse and refers to the other
> proposal, that introduces the exotic lexing scheme.
> 
> So am I right in understanding that `f-1` will lex as `f - 1`, but `f
> -1` will lext as `f (-1)`?   The reason this would work like that is
> because the "white space" token before the `-` is not "closing" and
> so we know to parse a negative literal. 

That is my understanding. Does that affect your verdict here?

> Just as a note, I never quite understood how we plan to implement
> #229---is it supposed to be done through state in the lexer, or do we
> have a simple lexer that keeps all tokens, including white space, and
> then write a post-processing function to glue and rejigger tokens?

No idea here.

Cheers,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From rae at richarde.dev  Wed Jul 22 13:49:44 2020
From: rae at richarde.dev (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:49:44 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
 rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <65bd9375a6259aaed4296c78c8d1e1cf28d07a9f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <65bd9375a6259aaed4296c78c8d1e1cf28d07a9f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
Message-ID: <010f017376c980c2-68823be3-cfea-4133-8e2e-ec4da53bf840-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>



> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> 
>> Just as a note, I never quite understood how we plan to implement
>> #229---is it supposed to be done through state in the lexer, or do we
>> have a simple lexer that keeps all tokens, including white space, and
>> then write a post-processing function to glue and rejigger tokens?
> 
> No idea here.

#229 is in fact already implemented: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/1664   I don't remember the details to explain them, but I don't think it turned out hard to implement.

Richard
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From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 15:25:42 2020
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:25:42 -0700
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
	rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <010f017376c980c2-68823be3-cfea-4133-8e2e-ec4da53bf840-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <65bd9375a6259aaed4296c78c8d1e1cf28d07a9f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017376c980c2-68823be3-cfea-4133-8e2e-ec4da53bf840-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nurPjQxC+CChCubmo7E-wrtwbynK+EMtzHUYDVr4PU+DuA@mail.gmail.com>

Huh, good to know. I just looked at how it is done, and we are literally
peeking at the characters surrounding tokens and running a bit of Haskell
to guess the classification of the previous/next token.  Seems a bit
brittle but I guess this is not something that is likely to change.  I am
also surprised it didn't slow down the lexer, but maybe it's lost in the
noise.

Anyway, I don't have a strong opinion on the proposal as this is an
extension I never use, but the proposed behavior seems more intuitive for
humans, so it seems reasonable to accept it.

Iavor

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 06:49 Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev> wrote:

>
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> wrote:
>
> Just as a note, I never quite understood how we plan to implement
> #229---is it supposed to be done through state in the lexer, or do we
> have a simple lexer that keeps all tokens, including white space, and
> then write a post-processing function to glue and rejigger tokens?
>
>
> No idea here.
>
>
> #229 is in fact already implemented:
> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/1664   I don't
> remember the details to explain them, but I don't think it turned out hard
> to implement.
>
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From mail at joachim-breitner.de  Wed Jul 22 15:28:04 2020
From: mail at joachim-breitner.de (Joachim Breitner)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:28:04 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #344: Negative Literals Improved,
 rec: accept
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nurPjQxC+CChCubmo7E-wrtwbynK+EMtzHUYDVr4PU+DuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c2aa5fb468c3491cde5e6b325833bcb9bf3937d.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017351ba5893-4de9b637-390e-43c4-a419-9f97d47d690e-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAHnFXOu2BZim1eFk=DSyfF1qnHtwSs=hpgw4o6sr+2hJT06McA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH6fHQnVv0b7b_pJKGqam-qPsxDS9CVVCNNbOV6_otLfsacOXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGK9nuqPiMGhEJUe2a5oE=m8tPvUk2dTgLQCJ4TeC65Z1-TuAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <65bd9375a6259aaed4296c78c8d1e1cf28d07a9f.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <010f017376c980c2-68823be3-cfea-4133-8e2e-ec4da53bf840-000000@us-east-2.amazonses.com>
 <CAGK9nurPjQxC+CChCubmo7E-wrtwbynK+EMtzHUYDVr4PU+DuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c0dc3e050aa7cee90a42fc2ef3c058ea908e87b.camel@joachim-breitner.de>

Hi,

great, so I declare consensus will accept that proposal now.

Cheers,
Joachim


Am Mittwoch, den 22.07.2020, 08:25 -0700 schrieb Iavor Diatchki:
> Huh, good to know. I just looked at how it is done, and we are literally peeking at the characters surrounding tokens and running a bit of Haskell to guess the classification of the previous/next token.  Seems a bit brittle but I guess this is not something that is likely to change.  I am also surprised it didn't slow down the lexer, but maybe it's lost in the noise.
> 
> Anyway, I don't have a strong opinion on the proposal as this is an extension I never use, but the proposed behavior seems more intuitive for humans, so it seems reasonable to accept it.
> 
> Iavor
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 06:49 Richard Eisenberg <rae at richarde.dev> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Just as a note, I never quite understood how we plan to implement
> > > > #229---is it supposed to be done through state in the lexer, or do we
> > > > have a simple lexer that keeps all tokens, including white space, and
> > > > then write a post-processing function to glue and rejigger tokens?
> > > 
> > > No idea here.
> > 
> > #229 is in fact already implemented: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/1664   I don't remember the details to explain them, but I don't think it turned out hard to implement.
> > 
> > Richard
> > _______________________________________________
> > ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> > ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> > https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
-- 
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/



From simonpj at microsoft.com  Tue Jul 28 08:03:41 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 08:03:41 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Bang patterns: 343
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

Friends
Despite asking, I'm not seeing any support for proposal 343 "Enable bang patterns by default<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343>", except from the author. He makes a good case, but I think it's a case that you could make for quite a few extensions.
I propose that we reject the proposal as written.  Any objections?
That leaves the wider question, best summarised by Joachim's post<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343#issuecomment-664631343>: we could occasionally add a new synonym for a bunch of extensions.   I suppose we'd have to (a) debate and decide that process and (b) execute on the process.   Perhaps that'd be useful but it's all work.  Let's first see if there is real support for doing it.   If so, probably the best thing would be for someone who wants it to happen to write a proposal (as Joachim has started) describing the process.
Simon

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From trupill at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 08:13:37 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:13:37 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Bang patterns: 343
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with the rejection. My main concern, as shared by others in the
thread, is why this specific extension and not others.

I am really looking forward to the addition of synonyms for a bunch of
extensions. Personally, I would love to see a way to enable every
"additive" extension (I am thinking of MultiParamTypeClasses +
FlexibleThings + ViewAndBangPatterns + ...). I would be happy to help with
setting up the process.

Regards,
Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:03, Simon Peyton Jones via
ghc-steering-committee (<ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>) escribió:

> Friends
>
> Despite asking, I’m not seeing any support for proposal 343 “Enable bang
> patterns by default
> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343>”, except from
> the author. He makes a good case, but I think it’s a case that you could
> make for quite a few extensions.
>
> I propose that we reject the proposal as written.  Any objections?
>
> That leaves the wider question, best summarised by Joachim’s post
> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343#issuecomment-664631343>:
> we could occasionally add a new synonym for a bunch of extensions.   I
> suppose we’d have to (a) debate and decide that process and (b) execute on
> the process.   Perhaps that’d be useful but it’s all work.  Let’s first see
> if there is real support for doing it.   If so, probably the best thing
> would be for someone who wants it to happen to write a proposal (as Joachim
> has started) describing the process.
>
> Simon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From tomjharding at live.co.uk  Tue Jul 28 08:19:15 2020
From: tomjharding at live.co.uk (Tom Harding)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 08:19:15 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Bang patterns: 343
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E29207DE-9EAA-4825-AD1D-4765487C7E0E@live.co.uk>

Seconded, and very keen on the idea of collective synonyms as a more lightweight alternative to regularly-updated language specifications.

Cheers,
Tom

On 28 Jul 2020, at 09:13, Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>> wrote:

I agree with the rejection. My main concern, as shared by others in the thread, is why this specific extension and not others.

I am really looking forward to the addition of synonyms for a bunch of extensions. Personally, I would love to see a way to enable every "additive" extension (I am thinking of MultiParamTypeClasses + FlexibleThings + ViewAndBangPatterns + ...). I would be happy to help with setting up the process.

Regards,
Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:03, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee (<ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>>) escribió:
Friends
Despite asking, I’m not seeing any support for proposal 343 “Enable bang patterns by default<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343>”, except from the author. He makes a good case, but I think it’s a case that you could make for quite a few extensions.
I propose that we reject the proposal as written.  Any objections?
That leaves the wider question, best summarised by Joachim’s post<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343#issuecomment-664631343>: we could occasionally add a new synonym for a bunch of extensions.   I suppose we’d have to (a) debate and decide that process and (b) execute on the process.   Perhaps that’d be useful but it’s all work.  Let’s first see if there is real support for doing it.   If so, probably the best thing would be for someone who wants it to happen to write a proposal (as Joachim has started) describing the process.
Simon

_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
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From tomjharding at live.co.uk  Tue Jul 28 08:19:38 2020
From: tomjharding at live.co.uk (Tom Harding)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 08:19:38 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Bang patterns: 343
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D48F9AFA-80E1-4052-B945-3F1D83014487@live.co.uk>

Seconded, and very keen on the idea of collective synonyms as a more lightweight alternative to regularly-updated language specifications.

Cheers,
Tom

On 28 Jul 2020, at 09:13, Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>> wrote:

I agree with the rejection. My main concern, as shared by others in the thread, is why this specific extension and not others.

I am really looking forward to the addition of synonyms for a bunch of extensions. Personally, I would love to see a way to enable every "additive" extension (I am thinking of MultiParamTypeClasses + FlexibleThings + ViewAndBangPatterns + ...). I would be happy to help with setting up the process.

Regards,
Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:03, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee (<ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>>) escribió:
Friends
Despite asking, I’m not seeing any support for proposal 343 “Enable bang patterns by default<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343>”, except from the author. He makes a good case, but I think it’s a case that you could make for quite a few extensions.
I propose that we reject the proposal as written.  Any objections?
That leaves the wider question, best summarised by Joachim’s post<https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343#issuecomment-664631343>: we could occasionally add a new synonym for a bunch of extensions.   I suppose we’d have to (a) debate and decide that process and (b) execute on the process.   Perhaps that’d be useful but it’s all work.  Let’s first see if there is real support for doing it.   If so, probably the best thing would be for someone who wants it to happen to write a proposal (as Joachim has started) describing the process.
Simon

_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
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From trupill at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 08:22:24 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:22:24 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Committee,
I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal ->
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319
This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation
has stalled.

Regards,
Alejandro

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<
trupill at gmail.com>) escribió:

> @Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)
>
> @Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing
> this is a good one.
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<
> mail at joachim-breitner.de>) escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
>> > My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child
>>
>> Congrats, and all the best!
>>
>> > , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
>> > weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
>> > keep the authors waiting.
>>
>> Any volunteers?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Joachim
>> --
>> Joachim Breitner
>>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
>
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From arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io  Tue Jul 28 09:05:12 2020
From: arnaud.spiwack at tweag.io (Spiwack, Arnaud)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:05:12 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Bang patterns: 343
In-Reply-To: <D48F9AFA-80E1-4052-B945-3F1D83014487@live.co.uk>
References: <VI1PR83MB0429BA520F5E83EB2AC8E168AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOv8CHQuSuXkyP2g0=qM9hUDKaFDHC0zESnxT2a2qCudbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <D48F9AFA-80E1-4052-B945-3F1D83014487@live.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAH6fHQkR+44VZ5d=esUcy8-TYRbvg5+goNWyW+H1jC4E+szANg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I agree that this proposal doesn't make that much sense on its own. But it
does raise a good point. Maybe it's a sign that it's time to have a
conversation about defaults. I don't know where and how this conversation
ought to take place. But maybe GHC's default need not be those of Haskell
2010.

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Tom Harding <tomjharding at live.co.uk> wrote:

> Seconded, and very keen on the idea of collective synonyms as a more
> lightweight alternative to regularly-updated language specifications.
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> On 28 Jul 2020, at 09:13, Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I agree with the rejection. My main concern, as shared by others in the
> thread, is why this specific extension and not others.
>
> I am really looking forward to the addition of synonyms for a bunch of
> extensions. Personally, I would love to see a way to enable every
> "additive" extension (I am thinking of MultiParamTypeClasses +
> FlexibleThings + ViewAndBangPatterns + ...). I would be happy to help with
> setting up the process.
>
> Regards,
> Alejandro
>
> El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:03, Simon Peyton Jones via
> ghc-steering-committee (<ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>) escribió:
>
>> Friends
>>
>> Despite asking, I’m not seeing any support for proposal 343 “Enable bang
>> patterns by default
>> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343>”, except from
>> the author. He makes a good case, but I think it’s a case that you could
>> make for quite a few extensions.
>>
>> I propose that we reject the proposal as written.  Any objections?
>>
>> That leaves the wider question, best summarised by Joachim’s post
>> <https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/343#issuecomment-664631343>:
>> we could occasionally add a new synonym for a bunch of extensions.   I
>> suppose we’d have to (a) debate and decide that process and (b) execute on
>> the process.   Perhaps that’d be useful but it’s all work.  Let’s first see
>> if there is real support for doing it.   If so, probably the best thing
>> would be for someone who wants it to happen to write a proposal (as Joachim
>> has started) describing the process.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
>> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
>> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
>
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Tue Jul 28 09:17:55 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:17:55 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.

Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org> On Behalf Of Alejandro Serrano Mena
Sent: 28 July 2020 09:22
To: Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

Dear Committee,
I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal -> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf1d337b38f29446b0aed08d832cf6866%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315213676728880&sdata=yFv7PtIaMxIv7FBTXkhJboLZ4i54g%2B6YuyPEC1Xg6ZA%3D&reserved=0>
This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation has stalled.

Regards,
Alejandro

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>>) escribió:
@Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)

@Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing this is a good one.

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>>) escribió:
Hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child

Congrats, and all the best!

> , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> keep the authors waiting.

Any volunteers?

Cheers,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf1d337b38f29446b0aed08d832cf6866%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315213676738835&sdata=tH6FlYs7ZbnHLLZ4Pz5VvKsrO84KK%2B5Tw8Cn0oFqjj8%3D&reserved=0>


_______________________________________________
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From trupill at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 09:21:38 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:21:38 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>

Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that a
bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back to
GitHub.

Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very
clear.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<
simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:

> Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.
>
>
>
> Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal
> in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
> *On Behalf Of *Alejandro Serrano Mena
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 09:22
> *To:* Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal ->
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf1d337b38f29446b0aed08d832cf6866%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315213676728880&sdata=yFv7PtIaMxIv7FBTXkhJboLZ4i54g%2B6YuyPEC1Xg6ZA%3D&reserved=0>
>
> This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation
> has stalled.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<
> trupill at gmail.com>) escribió:
>
> @Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)
>
>
>
> @Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing
> this is a good one.
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<
> mail at joachim-breitner.de>) escribió:
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> > My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child
>
> Congrats, and all the best!
>
> > , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> > weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> > keep the authors waiting.
>
> Any volunteers?
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf1d337b38f29446b0aed08d832cf6866%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315213676738835&sdata=tH6FlYs7ZbnHLLZ4Pz5VvKsrO84KK%2B5Tw8Cn0oFqjj8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf1d337b38f29446b0aed08d832cf6866%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315213676738835&sdata=%2BhlFzY%2F1CcP8tE2sdZJnXilMqsZtZWlIB%2Ftp00agv5Q%3D&reserved=0>
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Tue Jul 28 09:24:27 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:24:27 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB042948CB0E42835F84C74A93AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

So I’m still confused.  “We went back to GIthub”… does that mean that we invited the author to revise and resubmit?  I don’t know what else “back to github” means.

If it’s in committee-decision status, then our process says  should either accept, reject, or push back to the author for revision, in a timely way (guided by the shepherd)

Simon

From: Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
Sent: 28 July 2020 10:22
To: Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that a bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back to GitHub.

Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very clear.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<simonpj at microsoft.com<mailto:simonpj at microsoft.com>>) escribió:
Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.

Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>> On Behalf Of Alejandro Serrano Mena
Sent: 28 July 2020 09:22
To: Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

Dear Committee,
I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal -> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124588682&sdata=2l1wYxmnm3qB77ePDiZzvuKI8UQABr9JNy0l8lygGPE%3D&reserved=0>
This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation has stalled.

Regards,
Alejandro

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>>) escribió:
@Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)

@Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing this is a good one.

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>>) escribió:
Hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child

Congrats, and all the best!

> , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> keep the authors waiting.

Any volunteers?

Cheers,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124598638&sdata=YI3cPGedd1adfgequqeNtWJwUupFzkpWp6FfGKj1FZ8%3D&reserved=0>


_______________________________________________
ghc-steering-committee mailing list
ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124598638&sdata=9BGzF3bs%2FVir0CqcGb101VxOFh%2FhlXMr1KID6GZJELE%3D&reserved=0>
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From trupill at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 09:25:16 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:25:16 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB042948CB0E42835F84C74A93AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB042948CB0E42835F84C74A93AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOsqJ22PhmS7U1+DUz-navks-FNFdNaeGNUw8+4N077naA@mail.gmail.com>

I mean the last status, push back to the author for revision.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:24, Simon Peyton Jones (<
simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:

> So I’m still confused.  “We went back to GIthub”… does that mean that we
> invited the author to revise and resubmit?  I don’t know what else “back to
> github” means.
>
>
>
> If it’s in committee-decision status, then our process says  should either
> accept, reject, or push back to the author for revision, in a timely way
> (guided by the shepherd)
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 10:22
> *To:* Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that
> a bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back
> to GitHub.
>
>
>
> Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very
> clear.
>
>
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<
> simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:
>
> Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.
>
>
>
> Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal
> in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
> *On Behalf Of *Alejandro Serrano Mena
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 09:22
> *To:* Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal ->
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124588682&sdata=2l1wYxmnm3qB77ePDiZzvuKI8UQABr9JNy0l8lygGPE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation
> has stalled.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<
> trupill at gmail.com>) escribió:
>
> @Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)
>
>
>
> @Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing
> this is a good one.
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<
> mail at joachim-breitner.de>) escribió:
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> > My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child
>
> Congrats, and all the best!
>
> > , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> > weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> > keep the authors waiting.
>
> Any volunteers?
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124598638&sdata=YI3cPGedd1adfgequqeNtWJwUupFzkpWp6FfGKj1FZ8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-steering-committee mailing list
> ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C5b2c08cee5734215cbe708d832d7a993%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315249124598638&sdata=9BGzF3bs%2FVir0CqcGb101VxOFh%2FhlXMr1KID6GZJELE%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
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From simonpj at microsoft.com  Tue Jul 28 09:30:30 2020
From: simonpj at microsoft.com (Simon Peyton Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:30:30 +0000
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <CAHnFXOsqJ22PhmS7U1+DUz-navks-FNFdNaeGNUw8+4N077naA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB042948CB0E42835F84C74A93AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOsqJ22PhmS7U1+DUz-navks-FNFdNaeGNUw8+4N077naA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR83MB042940A6AE90EF6B1B64FB96AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>

OK, so to summarise

  *   We are waiting for the author
  *   You are encouraging us to comment anyway

Correct?  Does the author know this?   Why encourage only us?   Maybe post on Github to clarify the status, and encourage everyone to contribute.

S

From: Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
Sent: 28 July 2020 10:25
To: Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

I mean the last status, push back to the author for revision.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:24, Simon Peyton Jones (<simonpj at microsoft.com<mailto:simonpj at microsoft.com>>) escribió:
So I’m still confused.  “We went back to GIthub”… does that mean that we invited the author to revise and resubmit?  I don’t know what else “back to github” means.

If it’s in committee-decision status, then our process says  should either accept, reject, or push back to the author for revision, in a timely way (guided by the shepherd)

Simon

From: Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>>
Sent: 28 July 2020 10:22
To: Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com<mailto:simonpj at microsoft.com>>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that a bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back to GitHub.

Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very clear.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<simonpj at microsoft.com<mailto:simonpj at microsoft.com>>) escribió:
Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.

Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?

Simon

From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>> On Behalf Of Alejandro Serrano Mena
Sent: 28 July 2020 09:22
To: Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>>
Cc: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org<mailto:ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>>
Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel

Dear Committee,
I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal -> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=DHvjx8qWwjNaa9jn1mdfyBBOqMLJAXdozi3otokRKbk%3D&reserved=0>
This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation has stalled.

Regards,
Alejandro

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<trupill at gmail.com<mailto:trupill at gmail.com>>) escribió:
@Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)

@Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing this is a good one.

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>>) escribió:
Hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child

Congrats, and all the best!

> , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> keep the authors waiting.

Any volunteers?

Cheers,
Joachim
--
Joachim Breitner
  mail at joachim-breitner.de<mailto:mail at joachim-breitner.de>
  http://www.joachim-breitner.de/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=Xf0HrXmVOPpftJaGUUXQo2ztLCjz1sRhN4nJPP%2Fbshg%3D&reserved=0>


_______________________________________________
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From trupill at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 09:33:02 2020
From: trupill at gmail.com (Alejandro Serrano Mena)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:33:02 +0200
Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
 proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR83MB042940A6AE90EF6B1B64FB96AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ec85dbcf4d736b38d80f42b9f402ee5a55eb6e80.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <80FD825A-1E63-4807-9DF0-AAF3FBDA4BA5@seidel.io>
 <3c19e58d154f41e2c98979eab095aec2f12094c4.camel@joachim-breitner.de>
 <CAHnFXOug7-WbNhPbTPUAAmnn9KToqKgaCj2m_s=cUuhZOL7SbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHnFXOvwocM+RD9PnsEHicrbwJbe0grRcGP77CqvJ-Jb6ROz9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB04298CB423A244823A7EF54EAD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOtEa_zgULprgROvRNY8N=DQ8uqk13oSyjGm3jXpwMDKng@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB042948CB0E42835F84C74A93AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHnFXOsqJ22PhmS7U1+DUz-navks-FNFdNaeGNUw8+4N077naA@mail.gmail.com>
 <VI1PR83MB042940A6AE90EF6B1B64FB96AD730@VI1PR83MB0429.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHnFXOuvnEphLiuHeAceY0vNHs9QnVomHsPZ+VTQnDEpVyPx7A@mail.gmail.com>

Done. Once again, sorry for the confusion.

Alejandro

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:30, Simon Peyton Jones (<
simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:

> OK, so to summarise
>
>    - We are waiting for the author
>    - You are encouraging us to comment anyway
>
>
> Correct?  Does the author know this?   Why encourage only us?   Maybe post
> on Github to clarify the status, and encourage everyone to contribute.
>
>
>
> S
>
>
>
> *From:* Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 10:25
> *To:* Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> I mean the last status, push back to the author for revision.
>
>
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:24, Simon Peyton Jones (<
> simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:
>
> So I’m still confused.  “We went back to GIthub”… does that mean that we
> invited the author to revise and resubmit?  I don’t know what else “back to
> github” means.
>
>
>
> If it’s in committee-decision status, then our process says  should either
> accept, reject, or push back to the author for revision, in a timely way
> (guided by the shepherd)
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 10:22
> *To:* Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that
> a bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back
> to GitHub.
>
>
>
> Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very
> clear.
>
>
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<
> simonpj at microsoft.com>) escribió:
>
> Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.
>
>
>
> Are you the shepherd?   Have you made a recommendation?  Is the proposal
> in its final form  -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-bounces at haskell.org>
> *On Behalf Of *Alejandro Serrano Mena
> *Sent:* 28 July 2020 09:22
> *To:* Joachim Breitner <mail at joachim-breitner.de>
> *Cc:* ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee at haskell.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo
> proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel
>
>
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal ->
> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=DHvjx8qWwjNaa9jn1mdfyBBOqMLJAXdozi3otokRKbk%3D&reserved=0>
>
> This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation
> has stalled.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alejandro
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<
> trupill at gmail.com>) escribió:
>
> @Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)
>
>
>
> @Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing
> this is a good one.
>
>
>
> El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<
> mail at joachim-breitner.de>) escribió:
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:
> > My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child
>
> Congrats, and all the best!
>
> > , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few
> > weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t
> > keep the authors waiting.
>
> Any volunteers?
>
> Cheers,
> Joachim
> --
> Joachim Breitner
>   mail at joachim-breitner.de
>   http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=Xf0HrXmVOPpftJaGUUXQo2ztLCjz1sRhN4nJPP%2Fbshg%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
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