A future for the Windows packaging situation.

[Compl Yue]

Hey, respectful devs, 

Just now I see https://coder.com/ <https://coder.com/> (open source at https://github.com/cdr/code-server <https://github.com/cdr/code-server>), then I realize it may make a good option for windows users to feel home in starting Haskell development.

They happen to be talking about releasing a windows binary from current basis that only Linux/macOS are supported - https://github.com/cdr/code-server/issues/1397#issuecomment-627662902 <https://github.com/cdr/code-server/issues/1397#issuecomment-627662902>

Their mac experience is right about downloading a .zip file from https://github.com/cdr/code-server/releases <https://github.com/cdr/code-server/releases> , unpack it, double-click an executable (security option needs to be tuned as a mac thing), then goto http://localhost:8080/ <http://localhost:8080/> and voila:

Haskell Language Serveralanz.vscode-hie-server can be installed right away



I'd think GHC and Cabal-install can be bundled similarly, with such an IDE and batteries of HIE based extensions.

Maybe some day HLS can hook ghcup/ghcups/stack up to install GHC wrt per project specification, in a cross-platform way.

All the best,
Compl


> On 2020-05-13, at 18:55, Hécate <hecate at glitchbra.in> wrote:
> 
> Dear GHC devs, dear maintainers,
> 
> Following a discussion that took place on #ghc, I wish to spread it to the whole mailing-list, in order to receive some feedback,
> and plan for the future now that it has become clear that the present is rather bleak.
> 
> As some of you may have seen from the long threads in haskell-cafe@, countless steps of various difficulty for Windows users
> (excluding power-users) need to be taken in order to have a proper working GHC / Haskell installation on their machine.
> Moreover, some defiance against Chocolatey has come to our ears, due to the mailing-list registration form that appears
> when one desires to download this package manager. I shall speak for myself by saying that I do not wish the that the Windows
> Haskell developers need to become a special combo of Chocolatey maintainers and Windows power users.
> Some GNU/Linux distributions such as Exherbo have made this their creed, the major difference being that they actually give
> the tools to make such a thing possible.
> 
> The point of my email to you all is the following: I suggest that Haskell.org, the 501(c)(3) established in NY which, If I am not mistaken,
> holds the funds from various individual donations, the Amazon Smile programme and Software in the Public Interest grants,
> hires a company to establish a strong technological basis regarding Windows packaging. I am not talking of delegating the maintaining task
> to an external entity, but to provide the foundations upon which volunteers will be able to keep things running.
> Training in such matters would also be beneficial, so that newcomers can learn on the spot how to best interact with this.
> 
> Their contract would involve the initial setup of CI tasks able to produce MSIX packages, while the people in charge of the haskell.org
> landing page would ease the user experience by providing clearer ways to install GHC on various platforms.
> Ideally we could have a GUI to install libraries easily, like many GNU/Linux package managers offer.
> 
> That being said, I was also suggested the idea of a grant and/or sponsorship. What we need is less a capitalist framework around that task
> and more of an incentive to invest a serious amount of work and quality so that it becomes, at last, the non-issue it should have always been.
> 
> The important thing to keep in mind is that the GNU/Linux and macOS users *cannot* hold the Windows users to the same standards in
> terms of CLI usability. I cannot weigh in my opinion on the most recent iterations of PowerShell, but Windows XP's cmd.exe was
> excruciating, to say the least.
> 
> Now, I know some of you will prefer to have this task handled by competent volunteers, but I am under the moral obligation to say
> that expecting salvation and better tomorrows from people who have yet to make their presence known in the thirty years of existence
> of our dear language, is at best mild delusion, at worse folly that will only widen the gap between what is needed to get Haskell up and
> running smoothly on the Windows platform and the average skill of Windows users.
> 
> I am not suggesting that my email is The True Way to follow so that everything is fixed forever,
> and if we can, as a community, arrive to some satisfying workflow that would benefit rather than alienate
> our Windows user base, this would would be wonderful.
> 
> 
> Thank you for reading until the end.
> 
> Cheers,
> Hécate.
> 
> PS: I am in no way trying to berate anyone for their implied incompetence, or imply that Windows users are stupid and/or technologically impaired.
> This would be misinterpreting my words and lead nowhere but to another OS war on another mailing-list.
> PPS: I am serious. Please stay on-topic.
> PPPS: I hold no share, no money or any other form of capital in any Windows packaging company we might or might not end up hiring for the task.
> I am speaking of experience, for my company used an external contractor to work on our landing (non-product) page, while all hands were on deck
> to support the product development effort. This allowed us to have a strong foundation to iterate on, and bought us countless hours of development time.
> 
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> ghc-devs at haskell.org
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