Fwd: Release policies

[Boespflug, Mathieu]

Thanks for the feedback, Michael.

Manuel, I believe you are also a Cabal-the-library consumer in Haskell For Mac?

Michael, you brought up another problem tangentially related to the
original integer-gmp issue but that was not in my original list
earlier in this thread:

* Cabal-2.0.0 had breaking changes in the API.

This means that by association GHC itself broke BC, because it shipped
with Cabal-2.0, without the usual grace period.

Now, there are far fewer users of Cabal than of base. All, Michael in
his previous email seems to be okay with breaking changes in Cabal
given the conditions he stated (2 months grace period, advance notice
of when the 2 months start). And perhaps this points to the lack of a
need for the regular grace period applying to Cabal. How many other
users of Cabal-the-library are there? In principle, every single
Hackage package out there, which all have a Setup.hs script. Most of
them are trivial, but how many did break because of these API changes?
I for one am pretty happy for Cabal to move fast, but I'm concerned
that these breaking changes happened without any kind of advance
notice. To Simon's original point - there does not to be a clear
policy and a good process surrounding Cabal itself and other GHC
dependencies. So far we discussed mostly metadata changes, not API
changes.

And to be clear, folks did get some (post facto) notice in September:
http://coldwa.st/e/blog/2017-09-09-Cabal-2-0.html. That's helpful, but
I submit that in the future this really should be part of the GHC
release announcement (which happened over a month before that), and in
fact a migration guide circulated before the feature freeze, so
downstream tooling authors can adapt. If this is not possible, then
perhaps it's premature for GHC to include that given Cabal release.
Again, GHC should always have the option to stick to the old Cabal
version until things get ironed out.


On 15 December 2017 at 08:42, Michael Snoyman <michael at snoyman.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Boespflug, Mathieu <m at tweag.io> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> * Or a middle ground: make feature freeze a thing. Meaning that for a
>> couple of months before a major GHC release, the major new Cabal isn't
>> technically released yet, but like GHC itself within this period, it's
>> pretty staid, so not so much a moving target, and something downstream
>> tooling authors can possibly adapt to even without any grace period on
>> new metadata features. This assumes that the 2 months of feature
>> freeze are enough time for downstream tooling. Thoughts from any of
>> those maintainers?
>>
>
> Short answer: if there's a clear idea in advance of when this feature freeze
> is going to happen, I think we can coordinate releases of downstream tooling
> (Stack being the most important, but stackage-curator playing in as well) so
> that 2 months is sufficient. I'll talk with the rest of the Stack team to
> see if there are any concerns.
>
> Longer answer: Stack intentionally avoids depending on the internals of
> Cabal wherever possible. Instead of calling library functions directly from
> within Haskell code to perform builds, for example, it interacts with the
> Setup.hs files over their command line interface.[1] This has two results:
>
> * Stack can usually start using new GHC/Cabal versions without a new Stack
> release, since it's just shelling out for the actual build
> * There's not usually very much code churn needed in Stack to upgrade to a
> newer Cabal release
>
> This past release was an exception because of all of the changes that
> landed, both the new cabal grammar to support the ^>= operator (making the
> old parser incapable of lossily parsing new files) and API changes (I think
> mostly around Backpack, though there was some code cleanup as well). In
> particular, the main interface we need from Cabal—the package description
> data types and parser—changed significantly enough that it took significant
> effort to upgrade. There were also new features added (like sub libraries
> and foreign libraries) that weren't immediately supported by the old Stack
> version, and had to be manually added in.
>
> Tying this up: generally upgrading to a new Cabal release should be fine,
> and the only concern I'd have is fitting it into a release schedule with
> Stack. The complications that could slow that down are:
>
> * Changes to the command line interface that Stack uses (hopefully those are
> exceedingly rare)
> * Major overhauls to the Stack-facing API
>
> Michael
>
> [1] This allows for more reproducible builds of older snapshots, insuring
> that the exact same Cabal library is performing the builds