From hvr at gnu.org Sat Oct 10 09:02:06 2015 From: hvr at gnu.org (Herbert Valerio Riedel) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:02:06 +0200 Subject: HEAD-UPS: IRC presence for Haskell Infrastructure Hackathon 11-11th Oct 2015 Message-ID: <877fmvw0z5.fsf@gnu.org> Hi, as you may know, https://skillsmatter.com/conferences/7316-haskell-infrastructure-hackathon-2015 is starting right now! Attendees will be directed to the #hackage/freenode channel for task coordination, support, and counseling... It'd be great if those of you with some experience with the Cabal & Hackage code-base could join the #hackage channel today or tomorrow, and provide assistance. Moreover, there's a Wiki page for collecting task ideas up at https://github.com/haskell/cabal/wiki/Hackathon2015 if you have additional ideas, feel free to edit that page (if you lack permissions to edit, talk to us on #hackage) Cheers, hvr From j at dannynavarro.net Wed Oct 14 07:02:46 2015 From: j at dannynavarro.net (Danny Navarro) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:02:46 +0200 Subject: IRC logs for #hackage Message-ID: Since many interesting conversations related to cabal and hackage development happen in the #hackage channel, I wouldn't like to miss any of them. Keeping 1 day worth of logs would be fine with me. I was about to send a PR [1] to Chris' Done http://ircbrowse.net/, but I'd rather have explicit permission before doing so. I'm not sure who should I'm ask for though. [1]: https://github.com/jdnavarro/ircbrowse/commit/82657f77ea0d2158ae3fd92282d20d9b4e9c95e1 -- Danny Navarro | http://dannynavarro.net From adam at well-typed.com Fri Oct 16 15:41:37 2015 From: adam at well-typed.com (Adam Gundry) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:41:37 +0100 Subject: IRC logs for #hackage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56211AB1.7050103@well-typed.com> On 14/10/15 08:02, Danny Navarro wrote: > Since many interesting conversations related to cabal and hackage > development happen in the #hackage channel, I wouldn't like to miss > any of them. Keeping 1 day worth of logs would be fine with me. > > I was about to send a PR [1] to Chris' Done http://ircbrowse.net/, but > I'd rather have explicit permission before doing so. I'm not sure who > should I'm ask for though. > > [1]: https://github.com/jdnavarro/ircbrowse/commit/82657f77ea0d2158ae3fd92282d20d9b4e9c95e1 I don't know who you should be asking for permission, if anyone, but I just noticed that #hackage logs exist already on Phabricator: https://phabricator.haskell.org/chatlog/channel/4/ So there is some precedent. All the best, Adam -- Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ From j at dannynavarro.net Fri Oct 16 17:15:27 2015 From: j at dannynavarro.net (Danny Navarro) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:15:27 +0200 Subject: IRC logs for #hackage In-Reply-To: <56211AB1.7050103@well-typed.com> References: <56211AB1.7050103@well-typed.com> Message-ID: Hey Adam, That will work for me, no need to use ircbrowse. Thanks! On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Adam Gundry wrote: > On 14/10/15 08:02, Danny Navarro wrote: >> Since many interesting conversations related to cabal and hackage >> development happen in the #hackage channel, I wouldn't like to miss >> any of them. Keeping 1 day worth of logs would be fine with me. >> >> I was about to send a PR [1] to Chris' Done http://ircbrowse.net/, but >> I'd rather have explicit permission before doing so. I'm not sure who >> should I'm ask for though. >> >> [1]: https://github.com/jdnavarro/ircbrowse/commit/82657f77ea0d2158ae3fd92282d20d9b4e9c95e1 > > I don't know who you should be asking for permission, if anyone, but I > just noticed that #hackage logs exist already on Phabricator: > > https://phabricator.haskell.org/chatlog/channel/4/ > > So there is some precedent. > > All the best, > > Adam > > > -- > Adam Gundry, Haskell Consultant > Well-Typed LLP, http://www.well-typed.com/ > _______________________________________________ > cabal-devel mailing list > cabal-devel at haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cabal-devel -- Danny Navarro | http://dannynavarro.net From mikhail.glushenkov at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 00:47:20 2015 From: mikhail.glushenkov at gmail.com (Mikhail Glushenkov) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 02:47:20 +0200 Subject: IRC logs for #hackage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On 14 October 2015 at 09:02, Danny Navarro wrote: > I was about to send a PR [1] to Chris' Done http://ircbrowse.net/, but > I'd rather have explicit permission before doing so. I'm not sure who > should I'm ask for though. I don't think anyone will object, the channel is public anyway. From eric at metricspace.net Sun Oct 18 17:12:40 2015 From: eric at metricspace.net (Eric McCorkle) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:12:40 -0400 Subject: Cabal segfaults after update to GHC-7.10.2 from ports Message-ID: <5623D308.6000605@metricspace.net> Hello, I just updated my Haskell installation in FreeBSD 11 to GHC 7.10 using the ports tree. I am now seeing segfaults from cabal whenever I try to install anything, or even update the package list. Curiously, port builds of Haskell packages seem to work just fine, which leads me to believe the problem is in one of the dependencies as opposed to cabal itself. Also, I can manually compile and run simple programs. I tried various settings (LLVM/no, profile on/off, dynamic on/off) to no avail. Has anyone else seen this? Any advice on how to go about diagnosing the problem? From eric at metricspace.net Tue Oct 20 11:36:45 2015 From: eric at metricspace.net (Eric McCorkle) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:36:45 -0400 Subject: [Freebsd-haskell] Cabal segfaults after update to GHC-7.10.2 from ports In-Reply-To: <5623D308.6000605@metricspace.net> References: <5623D308.6000605@metricspace.net> Message-ID: <5626274D.8070307@metricspace.net> More info on this... It seems to be an LLVM issue. Blowing everything away and rebuilding everything without LLVM fixes the issue. Too bad though, LLVM worked just fine on FreeBSD through 7.8.3. It seems like a specific bug, though. Cabal would work some of the time, and I did manage to compile and run other programs. I also did a little work with GDB to try and diagnose the issue. The crash seems to happen in a function called recent_activity, and it looks like a bad jump into a block of 0's. I'm afraid I don't know enough to continue with the diagnosis, though. Unrelated, but I also noticed that checking the profile option the FreeBSD port now uses the --enable-executable-profiling option in addition to --enable-library-profiling, which builds cabal, happy, alex, and friends with profiling built in. Previously, the ports would just build with --enable-library-profiling, which is probably more in line with what users expect to have happen. On 10/18/15 13:12, Eric McCorkle wrote: > Hello, > > I just updated my Haskell installation in FreeBSD 11 to GHC 7.10 using > the ports tree. I am now seeing segfaults from cabal whenever I try to > install anything, or even update the package list. > > Curiously, port builds of Haskell packages seem to work just fine, which > leads me to believe the problem is in one of the dependencies as opposed > to cabal itself. > > Also, I can manually compile and run simple programs. > > I tried various settings (LLVM/no, profile on/off, dynamic on/off) to no > avail. > > Has anyone else seen this? Any advice on how to go about diagnosing the > problem? > _______________________________________________ > FreeBSD-haskell mailing list > FreeBSD-haskell at haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-haskell From mikhail.glushenkov at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 12:42:52 2015 From: mikhail.glushenkov at gmail.com (Mikhail Glushenkov) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:42:52 +0200 Subject: [Freebsd-haskell] Cabal segfaults after update to GHC-7.10.2 from ports In-Reply-To: <5626274D.8070307@metricspace.net> References: <5623D308.6000605@metricspace.net> <5626274D.8070307@metricspace.net> Message-ID: Hi, On 20 October 2015 at 13:36, Eric McCorkle wrote: > More info on this... It seems to be an LLVM issue. Blowing everything away > and rebuilding everything without LLVM fixes the issue. Too bad though, > LLVM worked just fine on FreeBSD through 7.8.3. You may want to report this on the GHC bug tracker. From johan.tibell at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:59:29 2015 From: johan.tibell at gmail.com (Johan Tibell) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:59:29 +0200 Subject: Taking a step back Message-ID: Friends, I'm taking a step back from day-to-day library work. There are two main reasons I use Haskell: on one hand I find writing Haskell educational and fun. On the other I hope to make it a viable alternative to existing mainstream languages. With recent changes to our core libraries, and the general direction these are moving in, I believe we're moving away from becoming a viable alternative to those mainstream languages. This has some practical implications for how I spend my Haskell hacking time. Much of what I do is maintaining and working on libraries that are needed for real world usage, but that aren't that interesting to work on. I've lost the motivation to work on these. I've decided to take a step back from the core maintenance work on cabal, network, containers, and a few others* starting now. I've already found replacement maintainers for these. I still plan to hack on random side projects, including GHC, and to continue coming to Haskell events and conference, just with a shorter bug backlog to worry about. :) -- Johan Tibell * For now I will still hack on unordered-containers and ekg, as there are some things I'd like to experiment with there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carter.schonwald at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 14:32:55 2015 From: carter.schonwald at gmail.com (Carter Schonwald) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:32:55 -0400 Subject: Taking a step back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I look forward to seeing yah around at events, as always! On Tuesday, October 20, 2015, Johan Tibell wrote: > Friends, > > I'm taking a step back from day-to-day library work. > > There are two main reasons I use Haskell: on one hand I find writing > Haskell educational and fun. On the other I hope to make it a viable > alternative to existing mainstream languages. With recent changes to our > core libraries, and the general direction these are moving in, I believe > we're moving away from becoming a viable alternative to those mainstream > languages. > > This has some practical implications for how I spend my Haskell hacking > time. Much of what I do is maintaining and working on libraries that are > needed for real world usage, but that aren't that interesting to work on. > I've lost the motivation to work on these. > > I've decided to take a step back from the core maintenance work on cabal, > network, containers, and a few others* starting now. I've already found > replacement maintainers for these. > > I still plan to hack on random side projects, including GHC, and to > continue coming to Haskell events and conference, just with a shorter bug > backlog to worry about. :) > > -- Johan Tibell > > * For now I will still hack on unordered-containers and ekg, as there are > some things I'd like to experiment with there. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cma at bitemyapp.com Tue Oct 20 16:26:04 2015 From: cma at bitemyapp.com (Christopher Allen) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:26:04 -0500 Subject: Taking a step back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you for your contributions to the Haskell community. Your work has done a lot, especially for working Haskell programmers like myself and my coworkers. I'm also grateful that you're willing to continue moving the ball forward with unordered-containers and ekg. You didn't mention it explicitly, but what about maintainership of Cassava? I have a soft-spot for that library which I've explained in this Github issue[1] and I'd like the library to get the love & attention I think it deserves. Hoping you'll reconsider your appraisal of Haskell in the future, but if you're not having fun, no reason to suffer. Cheers, [1]: https://github.com/tibbe/cassava/issues/101 On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Johan Tibell wrote: > Friends, > > I'm taking a step back from day-to-day library work. > > There are two main reasons I use Haskell: on one hand I find writing > Haskell educational and fun. On the other I hope to make it a viable > alternative to existing mainstream languages. With recent changes to our > core libraries, and the general direction these are moving in, I believe > we're moving away from becoming a viable alternative to those mainstream > languages. > > This has some practical implications for how I spend my Haskell hacking > time. Much of what I do is maintaining and working on libraries that are > needed for real world usage, but that aren't that interesting to work on. > I've lost the motivation to work on these. > > I've decided to take a step back from the core maintenance work on cabal, > network, containers, and a few others* starting now. I've already found > replacement maintainers for these. > > I still plan to hack on random side projects, including GHC, and to > continue coming to Haskell events and conference, just with a shorter bug > backlog to worry about. :) > > -- Johan Tibell > > * For now I will still hack on unordered-containers and ekg, as there are > some things I'd like to experiment with there. > > _______________________________________________ > ghc-devs mailing list > ghc-devs at haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs > > -- Chris Allen Currently working on http://haskellbook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsp at informatik.uni-kiel.de Sat Oct 24 10:19:38 2015 From: lsp at informatik.uni-kiel.de (lennart spitzner) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:19:38 +0200 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff Message-ID: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> hi, should we use #if __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ < 710 or #if !MIN_VERSION_base(4,8,0) ? currently both are used in different places, and i have no idea if there is a difference/if it matters. if it does not, i suggest conventionizing one of the two. lennart From hvriedel at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 10:56:58 2015 From: hvriedel at gmail.com (Herbert Valerio Riedel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:56:58 +0200 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff In-Reply-To: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> (lennart spitzner's message of "Sat, 24 Oct 2015 12:19:38 +0200") References: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> Message-ID: <87d1w4zg91.fsf@gmail.com> On 2015-10-24 at 12:19:38 +0200, lennart spitzner wrote: > hi, > > should we use > #if __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ < 710 > or > #if !MIN_VERSION_base(4,8,0) > ? > > currently both are used in different places, and i have no idea if > there is a difference/if it matters. if it does not, i suggest > conventionizing one of the two. IMO, guarding with MIN_VERSION_base() ought to refer to properties of the `base` library (e.g. availability of class instances or other symbols), while guarding with __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ should refer to properties (e.g. availability/semantics of language pragmas) and use of a specific GHC version. While we currently have a 1:1 relationship between base and GHC, this wasn't always the case (and it may make sense to relax this constraint again at some point in the future). Cheers, hvr From ttuegel at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 13:05:44 2015 From: ttuegel at gmail.com (Thomas Tuegel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 08:05:44 -0500 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff In-Reply-To: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> References: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:19 AM, lennart spitzner wrote: > hi, > > should we use > #if __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ < 710 > or > #if !MIN_VERSION_base(4,8,0) > ? > > currently both are used in different places, and i have no idea if > there is a difference/if it matters. if it does not, i suggest > conventionizing one of the two. MIN_VERSION_base is defined by Cabal, so it is not available during bootstrapping. This means we unfortunately need to use __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ in Cabal, even though it isn't really the right macro. It should be safe to use MIN_VERSION_base in cabal-install. -- Thomas Tuegel From hvriedel at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 15:00:41 2015 From: hvriedel at gmail.com (Herbert Valerio Riedel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:00:41 +0200 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff In-Reply-To: (Thomas Tuegel's message of "Sat, 24 Oct 2015 08:05:44 -0500") References: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> Message-ID: <874mhgz4yu.fsf@gmail.com> On 2015-10-24 at 15:05:44 +0200, Thomas Tuegel wrote: [...] > MIN_VERSION_base is defined by Cabal, so it is not available during > bootstrapping. yes, and that's why we have a cabal_macros_boot.h in GHC's build-system for bootstrapping purposes, http://git.haskell.org/ghc.git/blob/HEAD:/utils/ghc-cabal/cabal_macros_boot.h Moreover, Edward has a patch for GHC to have native MIN_VERSION_... support in GHC: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/10970 https://phabricator.haskell.org/D1349 > This means we unfortunately need to use __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ in Cabal, > even though it isn't really the right macro. It should be safe to use > MIN_VERSION_base in cabal-install. Cheers, hvr From ttuegel at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 15:13:02 2015 From: ttuegel at gmail.com (Thomas Tuegel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:13:02 -0500 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff In-Reply-To: <874mhgz4yu.fsf@gmail.com> References: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> <874mhgz4yu.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Herbert Valerio Riedel wrote: > On 2015-10-24 at 15:05:44 +0200, Thomas Tuegel wrote: > > [...] > >> MIN_VERSION_base is defined by Cabal, so it is not available during >> bootstrapping. > > yes, and that's why we have a cabal_macros_boot.h in GHC's build-system > for bootstrapping purposes, > > http://git.haskell.org/ghc.git/blob/HEAD:/utils/ghc-cabal/cabal_macros_boot.h There is also the case of bootstrapping outside of GHC. For the sake of distro packagers, one should be able to run: $ runhaskell Setup.hs configure $ runhaskell Setup.hs build $ runhaskell Setup.hs install from an unpacked Cabal tarball, outside the GHC tree, and without any special options. It's worth discussing if we want to continue to support that mode of installation. > Moreover, Edward has a patch for GHC to have native > MIN_VERSION_... support in GHC: > > https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/10970 > > https://phabricator.haskell.org/D1349 That's good to know! I look forward to its inclusion. -- Thomas Tuegel From lsp at informatik.uni-kiel.de Sat Oct 24 23:05:17 2015 From: lsp at informatik.uni-kiel.de (lennart spitzner) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:05:17 +0200 Subject: pre-710 compatibility stuff In-Reply-To: References: <562B5B3A.7090500@informatik.uni-kiel.de> Message-ID: <562C0EAD.4000806@informatik.uni-kiel.de> On 24/10/15 15:05, Thomas Tuegel wrote: > MIN_VERSION_base is defined by Cabal, so it is not available during > bootstrapping. This means we unfortunately need to use > __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ in Cabal, even though it isn't really the right > macro. It should be safe to use MIN_VERSION_base in cabal-install. ok, that makes sense, thanks Thomas and Herbert. Herbert also mentioned the qualified import trick to avoid CPP (the "more robust way" on [1]). While it is nifty, i am reluctant to apply it, given the silent/implicit requirement to have at least one reference to the qualified entity. Every contributor to such a module must be aware of this trick or risk accidentally breaking it. The explicitness of CPP seems preferable to me. [1] https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Migration/7.10#GHCsaysTheimportof...isredundant