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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks Gershom, that’s really useful information. Is this structure written down in a persistent form on a web page somewhere?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Currently I can see<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell.org_committee">Haskell.org committee</a> wiki page. It lists members and their terms, but makes
no mention of oversight of the Hackage admins <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hackages admins. I can find no wiki page, but Google turned up
<a href="https://hackage.haskell.org/users/admins/">this list</a>. I think it would be really helpful to have a page describing the role and powers.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="https://wiki.haskell.org/Hackage_trustees">Hackage trustees</a> wiki page, which in turn points to a list of the trustees. The page
carefully describes what the trustees can and cannot do.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="https://wiki.haskell.org/Core_Libraries_Committee">Core Libraries Committee</a>.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the Hackage admins are above the trustees in the chain of command Gershom describes, perhaps we could ask David’s questions about the Hackage admins too?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In the olden days the community was small and everyone knew everyone else. As our community grows (a good thing) it becomes increasingly important to have transparent, accountable processes. This
is not an expression of distrust – we are all incredibly grateful to the admins and trustees who spend evenings and weekends working on our behalf. Quite the contrary: open and transparent processes can protect those same people from unjustified criticism.
Plus, it becomes much easier to draw in new contributors (eg new trustees and admins) if the role, and process for joining, is visible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Concretely, it would be great to make sure that each group has a page saying at least<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Role & responsibilities<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Members (and terms if appropriate – with explanation if not)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Chair or co-chairs<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mechanism for appointing new member<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The appropriate email address for writing to the committee<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Relationship to other Haskell groups<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gershom, when you say “</span>Importantly, trustees do not set policy for hackage, though they may raise concerns or suggestions which decision-making bodies may consider", which other decision making
bodies did you have mind? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Libraries <libraries-bounces@haskell.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gershom B<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 June 2020 05:29<br>
<b>To:</b> Haskell Libraries <libraries@haskell.org>; David Feuer <david.feuer@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Hackage trustee selection process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I agree there is no formal process for selecting trustees, and it would be good to codify one. Good point, David!<br>
<br>
I do not think there should be terms — the post is intended to be purely administrative/technical, not one of oversight. <br>
<br>
Here is the chain of command: Hackage trustees are delegated powers by hackage admins, who in turn serve under the oversight of the haskell.org committee. They are only supposed to act within their delegated authority, which is determined by the hackage admins
in conjunction with the haskell.org committee. They do not form a “committee” or “subcommittee" with any sort of independent collective decision making, though of course they consult on particular technical issues (and thus there is no comparison with the
CLC). Importantly, trustees do not set policy for hackage, though they may raise concerns or suggestions which decision-making bodies may consider.<br>
<br>
Typically, when a new trustee has been proposed, they have been accepted on the basis of a consensus discussion. The “process” if there is an issue is that the hackage admins and haskell.org committee can act as necessary (up to and including removing trustees),
because the trustees do not constitute an independent body, just people with some limited delegated rights on the hackage server.<br>
<br>
Speaking of which, we could use more trustees if people want to volunteer. I warn you, it is very boring (but necessary).<br>
<br>
-Gershom<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 3, 2020, 6:16 PM -0400, David Feuer <<a href="mailto:david.feuer@gmail.com">david.feuer@gmail.com</a>>, wrote:<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">At present, there is no process for selecting Hackage trustees, there are no designated terms for them, and there is no process for removing them. This strikes me as most unfortunate. We trust that these folks will manage Hackage for the
benefit of the community, but there is no process the community can rely on for ensuring the right people have trustee powers. Can we fix this situation?
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A couple specific suggestions:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1. Perhaps the Hackage trustees can adopt organizational standards similar to those of the Core Library Committee to get things going quickly.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2. Perhaps the CLC should be able to designate a certain number of its own members as Hackage trustees.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:Libraries@haskell.org">Libraries@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries">http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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