[Haskell] Re: Newbie: what are the advantages of Haskell?

[Taillefer, Troy (EXP)]

>Admittedly, this is phrased in an inflammatory manner, however, the
original sentiment >>is actually pointing out an advantage of Java over
Haskell. Here is the original >>>.paragraph in context:

This not the first inflammatory comment he has made 

>>But, Sebastian is right.
Sebastian will be right when I see Chimpanzees coding in Java :) 

>> The leap is worth it.
I am not so sure it was for me.
I guess It depends on what you are looking for I have spent the last
year learning Haskell and I have learned some very interesting concepts.
I can't help but wish that Haskell turned out to be a more practical
language for me to code something useful in every time I looked for
Haskell libraries I was a disappointed. 
I can't help feeling that last year might have been better
spent learning Erlang (which is this years language for me to learn).

I really enjoy Functional programming (at least until I try to do
something serious then frustration sets in). I can't produce software in
a timely and cost effective fashion without a large body of high
quality, documented and maintained libraries.

I get the feeling that Haskell is for researchers to explore ideas about
programming in but no one is interested in doing The grind work of
cranking out useful basic libraries. 
I guess you need borrow some of those Java Chimps :).

Am I the only person on the list that feels this way ?

I guess I am feeling a bit bitter of spending so much time on Haskell
and having so little to show for it. 

Troy


-----Original Message-----
From: haskell-bounces at haskell.org [mailto:haskell-bounces at haskell.org]
On Behalf Of Al Falloon
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:19 PM
To: haskell at haskell.org
Cc: haskell at haskell.org
Subject: [Haskell] Re: Newbie: what are the advantages of Haskell?

Taillefer, Troy (EXP) wrote:
> Java sense (i.e. "cut out any feature that can't be understood in five

> minutes by a chimp")
>  
> Got to love comments like this they are constructive, objective, 
> mature and accurate.
>  
> Glad we have your expert opinion to give us the gospel.
>  
> Can I get an amen? How about a Hallelujah ?

Admittedly, this is phrased in an inflammatory manner, however, the
original sentiment is actually pointing out an advantage of Java over
Haskell. Here is the original paragraph in context:

Sebastian Sylvan wrote:
> I can sometimes feel that Haskell looses out on not being user 
> friendly in the Java sense (i.e. "cut out any feature that can't be 
> understood in five minutes by a chimp"). Some things do take some 
> effort to learn, but there is a huge payoff for it (it's really 
> powerful!). But yeah, there might be plenty of folks who will never 
> bother learning about them, and they won't understand your code.

IOW: Java's advanced features are separable from its basic features. 
I.e. you can teach Java without teaching generics or anonymous inner
classes. In Haskell, OTOH, you can't even learn how to do IO without
learning Monads, or at least glossing over oddities like a new syntax. 
And thats not even getting into issues like statelessness and lazy
evaluation.

So for a new user, Java is the better language. You can get into its
features slowly and as you see the need for them. Haskell requires you
to learn a number of mind-bending concepts right up front. Java has a
gentle learning curve and Haskell has a vertical jump.

But, Sebastian is right. The leap is worth it. Its the same as what
someone once said about LISP: even if you never get to use Haskell
regularly, you will be a better programmer when you finally "get it".

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