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From giftcaravan@usa.com Sun May 19 18:25:21 2002 From: giftcaravan@usa.com (giftcaravan@usa.com) Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 17:25:21 Subject: SAVE 40-50% at Gift Caravan - coupon included xp Message-ID: <20010519213652.79CEA255AE@www.haskell.org> ****************************************************************************** You are receiving this email because you or someone you know requested that you receive a special promotion from Gift Caravan, or you have been selected for this special promotion. To be removed from this list, please see below. ***************************************************************************** WELCOME to the Gift Caravan Super sale. For a limited time you can save BIG $$$ at Gift Caravan. Right now during our Spring sale you can save up to 50% on all items. Save on Home & Garden Decor, Candles and Votives, Collectibles, Porcelain Dolls, Wind Chimes, Trinket Boxes, Novelties and much, much more! Please accept the following coupon as a welcoming gift: # GCCB44 for a 20% discount Use this coupon to SAVE 20% Plus... Orders under $50 get additional 10% off. Orders over $50 get an additional 20% off. Orders over $100 get an additional 30% off. WOW! So, an order over $100 gets 30% off plus use the coupon above for another 20% off, for a total of 50% off. That's Savings... Coupon valid on all items. Visit us now! http://www.giftcaravan.com Coupon Code: GCCB44 HURRY! This is a limited time offer. Regards, Promo Dept http://www.giftcaravan.com ******************************************************************************* ALL Remove requests AUTOMATICALLY honored upon receipt Reply to the following email address offlist777@hotmail.com?subject=remove ******************************************************************************* From ag@ostu.ru Thu May 9 15:00:24 2002 From: ag@ostu.ru (Alex P.Gordienko) Date: Thu,22 Nov 2001 12:26:20 -0000 Subject: Fw: Re: Hot stuff - check it ! 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA= --bound-- From ag@ostu.ru Thu May 9 15:00:24 2002 From: ag@ostu.ru (Alex P.Gordienko) Date: Thu,22 Nov 2001 13:19:33 -0000 Subject: Fw: Re: many shit to check ?! 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------=_Mail_Part_PPP_POP3_01C11A8E.4ECE36A0-- ------=_Mail_Part_PPP_SMTP_01C11A5B.CEFD965-- From sk@cs.brown.edu Wed May 1 04:23:12 2002 From: sk@cs.brown.edu (Shriram Krishnamurthi) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PLAN-X: new deadline (May 31) Message-ID: <200205010323.XAA19673@bosch.cs.brown.edu> Note that both submission and notification dates have changed from earlier announcements. The original submission date was awkwardly placed with respect to several other conference and workshop deadlines. ------- PLAN-X: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE TECHNOLOGIES FOR XML Oct 3, 2002 Pittsburgh, PA (Co-located with PLI) CALL FOR PAPERS Submission deadline: May 31, 2002 [not May 1, as previously announced] XML has emerged as the de facto standard for data interchange on the web. The use of XML as a common format for representation, interchange, and transformation of data poses new challenges to programming languages, applications, and database systems. During the last few years, the database research community has devoted a lot of attention to XML's data representation challenges, as evidenced by the number of XML-related publications in premier database conferences and journals. In contrast, the attention devoted to XML by the programming language research community has been minimal. This is unfortunate, since the robustness of current and future programming standards and tools for XML will depend on the strength of their foundations in core programming technologies e.g., XML parsing (parsing theory and incremental parsing), XML schemas (type systems), XPATH expressions and XSLT programs (pattern-matching languages and their optimization), XSLT debuggers (dynamic program analysis and slicing). Since XML is a new domain, core programming technologies developed in past research cannot be used unchanged; instead, novel research is required to address the unique challenges posed by XML and its use in web applications and standalone applications. This workshop aims to bring together researchers from the programming languages and XML communities, a) to foster novel research to address unique challenges being posed by XML on current and future programming technologies; b) to exchange information on early research experiences with XML-related programming systems, tools, and languages; and c) to expose the PLI community to XML technologies and the potential impact of these technologies on future software. SUBMISSION PROCEDURE We solicit submissions on original research not previously published or currently submitted for publication elsewhere, in the form of extended abstracts. These extended abstracts should not exceed 5000 words (approximately 10 pages). Detailed submission instructions will be posted soon at http://www.research.avayalabs.com/user/wadler/planx. PROCEEDINGS There will be no formal proceedings. An informal proceedings will be distributed at the workshop. [The intention is that papers presented at PLAN-X should not be blocked from later submission to an 'archival' conference.] IMPORTANT DATES Submission deadline 31 May 2002 Notification of acceptance or rejection 31 July 2002 Final papers due for informal proceedings 4 Sep 2002 WEB PAGE: http://www.research.avayalabs.com/user/wadler/planx/ GENERAL CHAIR: Vivek Sarkar, IBM PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS: Benjamin Pierce (University of Pennsylvania) Philip Wadler (Avaya Labs) PROGRAM COMMITTEE: Allen Brown (Microsoft) Peter Buneman (Edinburgh) Sophie Cluet (Xyleme / INRIA) Mary Fernandez (AT&T Labs) Shriram Krishnamurthi (Brown) Makoto Murata (IBM Japan) Benjamin Pierce (University of Pennsylvania) Michael Schwartzbach (Aarhus) Dan Suciu (University of Washington) Philip Wadler (Avaya Labs) INVITED SPEAKER: James Clark From bahadirsevinc@firat.edu.tr Wed May 1 11:21:49 2002 From: bahadirsevinc@firat.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?B?QmFoYWT9ciBTRVbdTsc=?=) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:21:49 +0300 Subject: Read File Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1F113.26811170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Haskellers, I want to read some data from a text file. I accomplished it but I want to read data from file as a Integer list for example text file has [1,2,3,5] and when I read this data from file I handeled it as string. What can I do to get it as integer list. Thanks.......... Bahad�r SEV�N� ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1F113.26811170 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IjEKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5gQAAAAAAADqAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHBQABAA0AFQAAAAMABAEB A5AGAEAGAAAlAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAACgAAAFJlYWQgRmlsZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAHB8PoA/0hlq02snU2QjYmWoHZNnlEAAAIB HQwBAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6QkFIQURJUlNFVklOQ0BGSVJBVC5FRFUuVFIACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAE6n 4/nwwQECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAA0UklwPIG8UWD8DkERUDCnMKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAA zgEAAMoBAAAGAwAATFpGdTmPYLkDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRY0APgLYG4OEDA1NU8B9wKkA2MCAGNoCsBz oGV0MTYyAAAqAuF6YQeAIAdtAoAHbRIQVZ5SAoMAUARVEMcwIAcTfQKDMhTPEVsV9QcTFCczbwPF Fy8YPxQkfQqACMggtjsJbw4wNR2zDiA4CbtLAoAKgXYIkHdrC4Bk2Q5QdWMAUAsDYxSiC8UPCrEK gSHQAtExIERlAQrBSGFza2VsbBkEkHMsIoUWgCAgSYwgdwBwBUB0byAJcDBhZCBzA3ASAGRhFQGQ IANSICaAdGV45QVAZgMQZS4lAQDQBaCWbQtQBABoCYAgaQVA/GJ1BUAlHSZYJ2Im4AQgpSaASQIw ZWcEkCAoQX8nQQWxJyAR4AtQEgAnFyADGoAEIFsxLDIsM/gsNV0m4CEAJSAocAOg8yUQJbN0aAQA Kg4lARqA/yEAI/AohCsBK/AFEA8gJ6C2VxqABUBjA5ElEGQlkL8lgSuQBUAxZAuAK3guIoTiVDDR a3MuNYchxiKUhzavIcEWkGIgQmEagI0LMCcFcAXAU0VWONDIZGROONBjNzb6JPD9IuNiAtEZ0Dpk Ioc2WBzRAgA9UAAACwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAASACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAjmoBAB4ABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADku MAAeAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAIgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAA AQAAAAAAAAALAAqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAACChQAAAQAAAAsAN4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwA5gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADADqACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAO4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAAwBd gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAHKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAA AAAAAAIB+A8BAAAAEAAAANFJJcDyBvFFg/A5BEVAwpwCAfoPAQAAABAAAADRSSXA8gbxRYPwOQRF QMKcAgH7DwEAAACfAAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAaobsIACsqVsIAAFBTVFBSWC5ETEwAAAAAAAAAAE5J VEH5v7gBAKoAN9luAAAAQzpcRG9jdW1lbnRzIGFuZCBTZXR0aW5nc1xCQUhBRElSU0VWSU5DXExv Y2FsIFNldHRpbmdzXEFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIERhdGFcTWljcm9zb2Z0XE91dGxvb2tcb3V0bG9vay5w c3QAAAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAAADoAAAA8UEJFRklEUEFPSUVOR0FJQURBSktFRUhL Q0FBQS5iYWhhZGlyc2V2aW5jQGZpcmF0LmVkdS50cj4AAAADAAYQU8JJBgMABxDiAAAAAwAQEAAA AAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAERFQVJIQVNLRUxMRVJTLElXQU5UVE9SRUFEU09NRURBVEFG Uk9NQVRFWFRGSUxFSUFDQ09NUExJU0hFRElUQlVUSVdBTlRUT1JFQUREQVRBRlJPTUZJTEVBU0FJ TlRFR0VSTEkAAAAA8lA= ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C1F113.26811170-- From afie@cs.uu.nl Wed May 1 12:04:23 2002 From: afie@cs.uu.nl (Arjan van IJzendoorn) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:04:23 +0200 Subject: Read File References: Message-ID: <038101c1f0ff$f3ff3500$ec50d383@sushi> Hello, > text file has [1,2,3,5] > and when I read this data from file I handeled it as string. What can I do to get it as integer list. Apply read: [Warning untested code ahead] main :: IO () main = do contents <- readFile "myFileWithNumbers" let intList = read contents :: [Int] print intList Arjan From simonmar@microsoft.com Wed May 1 12:48:43 2002 From: simonmar@microsoft.com (Simon Marlow) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:48:43 +0100 Subject: ANNOUNCE: Haddock version 0.1, a Haskell documentation tool Message-ID: <9584A4A864BD8548932F2F88EB30D1C6090B1CE9@TVP-MSG-01.europe.corp.microsoft.com> I'm pleased to announce version 0.1 of Haddock, a documentation generation tool for Haskell source code. It's available from http://www.haskell.org/haddock/ Here's the README: Haddock, a Haskell Documentation Tool =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This is Haddock, a tool for automatically generating documentation from annotated Haskell source code. It is primary intended for documenting libraries, but it should be useful for any kind of Haskell code. Like other systems ([1],[2]), Haddock lets you write documentation annotations next to the definitions of functions and types in the source code, in a syntax that is easy on the eye when writing the source code (no heavyweight mark-up). The documentation generated by Haddock is fully hyperlinked - click on a type name in a type signature to go straight to the definition, and documentation, for that type. Haddock understands Haskell's module system, so you can structure your code however you like without worrying that internal structure will be exposed in the generated documentation. For example, it is common to implement a library in several modules, but define the external API by having a single module which re-exports parts of these implementation modules. Using Haddock, you can still write documentation annotations next to the actual definitions of the functions and types in the library, but the documentation annotations from the implementation will be propagated to the external API when the documentation is generated. Abstract types and classes are handled correctly. In fact, even without any documentation annotations, Haddock can generate useful documentation from your source code. Haddock can generate documentation in multiple formats; currently HTML is implemented, and there is partial support for generating DocBook. The generated HTML uses stylesheets, so you need a fairly up-to-date browser to view it properly (Mozilla, Konqueror, Opera, and IE 6 should all be ok). Full documentation can be found in the doc/ subdirectory, in DocBook format. Please send questions and suggestions to me: Simon Marlow [1] IDoc - A No Frills Haskell Interface Documentation System http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/haskell/idoc/ [2] HDoc http://www.fmi.uni-passau.de/~groessli/hdoc/ From mechvel@botik.ru Thu May 2 08:36:36 2002 From: mechvel@botik.ru (Serge D. Mechveliani) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:36:36 +0400 Subject: finding sublist Message-ID: <20020502113636.A462@botik.ru> Thanks to people who helped me with the task >> Import two space separated columns of integers from file. Claus Reinke recommends to exploit `lines'. Indeed, it bocomes shorter now: main = readFile "data" >>= (putStr . show . twoIntLists) where twoIntLists str = case span (not . null) $ dropWhile null $ lines str of (lns, lns') -> (readInts lns, readInts lns') readInts = map (\ str -> read str :: Integer) . dropWhile null Another question: has the Haskell Standard library a function for such a usable task as finding of occurence of a segment in a list? Say findSegmentBy (...) [2,2,3] [0,0,2,2,1,2,2,3,1,2,3] --> ([0,0,2,2,1], [2,2,3,1,2,3]) I have heard, an efficient algorithm (for large lists) for this is not so simple. ----------------- Serge Mechveliani mechvel@botik.ru From mechvel@botik.ru Thu May 2 11:12:53 2002 From: mechvel@botik.ru (Serge D. Mechveliani) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:12:53 +0400 Subject: e :: Double Message-ID: <20020502141253.A731@botik.ru> Please, has Haskell e :: Double ( ~= limit (1 + 1/n)^n ) in its standard library? ----------------- Serge Mechveliani mechvel@botik.ru From mechvel@botik.ru Thu May 2 11:18:50 2002 From: mechvel@botik.ru (Serge D. Mechveliani) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:18:50 +0400 Subject: e = exp 1 Message-ID: <20020502141850.A748@botik.ru> I wrote about e :: Double for the Library. It can be obtained as exp 1, but I wonder whether it is good for the library to add the `e' denotation. ----------------- Serge Mechveliani mechvel@botik.ru From la@iki.fi Thu May 2 11:17:59 2002 From: la@iki.fi (Lauri Alanko) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:17:59 +0300 Subject: e :: Double In-Reply-To: <20020502141253.A731@botik.ru>; from mechvel@botik.ru on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:12:53PM +0400 References: <20020502141253.A731@botik.ru> Message-ID: <20020502131759.A25738@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:12:53PM +0400, Serge D. Mechveliani wrote: > Please, has Haskell e :: Double > > ( ~= limit (1 + 1/n)^n ) in its standard library? exp 1.0 Lauri Alanko la@iki.fi From tweed@compsci.bristol.ac.uk Thu May 2 11:47:08 2002 From: tweed@compsci.bristol.ac.uk (D. Tweed) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:47:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: e = exp 1 In-Reply-To: <20020502141850.A748@botik.ru> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 May 2002, Serge D. Mechveliani wrote: > I wrote about e :: Double for the Library. > > It can be obtained as exp 1, > but I wonder whether it is good for the library to add the `e' > denotation. Just a comment: my programming style (and others I've seen) use single letters parameters a lot, so if it is added a longer name would be preferable. This is based on the fact that I don't use `e' (as opposed to exp x) much. ___cheers,_dave_________________________________________________________ www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~tweed/|`...heat generated by its microprocessors will email:tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk|slope upward exponentially, reaching the power work tel:(0117) 954-5250 |density of a nuclear reactor before 2010'-Intel From joe@isun.informatik.uni-leipzig.de Thu May 2 11:51:32 2002 From: joe@isun.informatik.uni-leipzig.de (Johannes Waldmann) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:51:32 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Haddock Message-ID: <200205021051.MAA11864@isun11.informatik.uni-leipzig.de> I just tried haddock-0.1. Good thing! Two quibbles, though: * the parser chokes on CVS headers like -- $Id ...$ ( but -- -- $Id ..$ is OK) * is there support for hierarchical namespaces? ( with module Foo.Bar in file Foo/Bar.hs, and so on ) Best regards, -- -- Johannes Waldmann ---- http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~joe/ -- -- joe@informatik.uni-leipzig.de -- phone/fax (+49) 341 9732 204/252 -- From simonmar@microsoft.com Thu May 2 12:53:30 2002 From: simonmar@microsoft.com (Simon Marlow) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:53:30 +0100 Subject: Haddock Message-ID: <9584A4A864BD8548932F2F88EB30D1C6090B1FC6@TVP-MSG-01.europe.corp.microsoft.com> > I just tried haddock-0.1. Good thing! Two quibbles, though: > * the parser chokes on CVS headers like -- $Id ...$=20 > ( but -- -- $Id ..$ is OK) Yes, because '-- $' has a special meaning in Haddock (it's a named documentation comment). > * is there support for hierarchical namespaces? > ( with module Foo.Bar in file Foo/Bar.hs, and so on ) Yes, hierarchical modules are supported. You must pass the full filenames of each of the modules to be processed to Haddock, though. Cheers, Simon From 0ffice100@bahraimail.com Thu May 2 16:54:36 2002 From: 0ffice100@bahraimail.com (0ffice100@bahraimail.com) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 08:54:36 -0700 Subject: = Myth: All HGH Products Are the Same = Message-ID: <20020502154707.DCA0342225D@www.haskell.org> All HGH products are not the same. There are three different types of products. Yet, all three are advertised as if they where the same. The three types are: 1) Homeopathic HGH 2) Pre-cursor HGH 3) Real or synthetic HGH (delivered by injection or, by an oral spray method). Do you know differences? Call us and we'll explain them to you. Our toll free number is 888-248-4571 For more information on HGH read on............ ***************************************************************************** HAVE YOU HEARD OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE (HGH)??? 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Screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. *********************************************************************** Call us now 1-888-248-4571 for your free HGH consultation. *********************************************************************** From mpeti_k03@mail.com Thu May 2 20:42:53 2002 From: mpeti_k03@mail.com (laurent mpeti kabila) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:42:53 +0200 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020502193906.455ED421F21@www.haskell.org> REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE -------------------------------------- Your contact was availed to me by the chamber of commerce=2E It was given to me because of my diplomatic status as I did not disclose the actual reasons for which I sought your contact=2E But I was assured That you are reputable and trustworthy if you will be of assistance=2E I am Laurent Mpeti Kabila =28Jnr=29 the second son of Late President LAURENT DESIRE KABILA the immediate Past president of the DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO in Africa who was murdered by his opposition through his personal bodyguards in his bedroom on Tuesday 16th January=2C 2001=2E I have the privilege of being mandated by my father colleagues to seek your immediate and urgent co-operation to receive into your bank account the sum of US $25m=2E =28twenty-five million Dollars=29 and some thousands carats of Diamond=2E This money and treasures was lodged in a vault with a security firm in Europe and South-Africa=2E SOURCES OF DIAMONDS AND FUND In August 2000=2C my father as a defence minister and president has a meeting with his cabinet and armychief about the defence budget for 2000 to 2001 which was US $700m=2E so he directed one of his best friend=2E Frederic Kibasa Maliba who was a minister of mines and a political party leader known as the Union Sacree de=2C I=11 opposition radicale et ses allies =28USORAL=29 to buy arms with US $200m on 5th January 2001=3B for him to finalized the arm=12s deal=2C my father was murdered=2E f=2EK=2E Maliba =28FKM=29 and I have decided to keep the money with a foreigner after which he will use it to contest for the political election=2E Inspite of all this we have resolved to present your or your company for the firm to pay it into your nominated account the above sum and diamonds=2E This transaction should be finalized within seven =287=29 working days and for your co-operation and partnership=2C we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to 5=2E5% of the money when successfully receive it in your account=2E The nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction what we require is your total co-operation and commitment to ensure 100% risk-free transaction at both ends and to protect the persons involved in this transactio! n=2C strict confidence and utmost secrecy is required even after the successful conclusion of this transaction=2E If this proposal is acceptable to you=2C kindly provide me with your personal telephone and fax through my E-mail box for immediate commencement of the transaction=2E I count on your honour to keep my secret=2C SECRET=2E Looking forward for your urgent reply Thanks=2E Best Regards MPETI L=2E KABILA =28Jnr=29 From sas02@clip.dia.fi.upm.es Fri May 3 09:07:47 2002 From: sas02@clip.dia.fi.upm.es (SAS2002) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:07:47 +0200 Subject: SAS'02 -- DEADLINE EXTENSION -- MAY 10 Message-ID: <200205030807.g4387l319535@clip.dia.fi.upm.es> (Apologies for multiple postings) Due to numerous requests, the submission deadline for SAS'02 has been extended to: **Friday MAY 10** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CALL FOR PAPERS (SAS'02) The 9th International Static Analysis Symposium September 17 - 20 2002, Madrid, Spain http://clip.dia.fi.upm.es/SAS02 New submission deadline: May 10, 2002 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Static Analysis is increasingly recognized as a fundamental tool for high performance implementations and verification systems of high-level programming languages. The series of Static Analysis Symposia has served as the primary venue for presentation of theoretical, practical, and application advances in the area. The Ninth International Static Analysis Symposium (SAS'02) will be held at the Technical University of Madrid, co-located with Logic-based Program Development and Transformation (LOPSTR'02) and the APPIA-GULP-PRODE Joint Conference on Declarative Programming (AGP'02). Previous symposia were held in Paris, Santa Barbara, Venice, Pisa, Paris, Aachen, Glasgow and Namur. The technical program for SAS'02 will consist of invited lectures, tutorials, panels, presentations of refereed papers, and software demonstrations. Contributions are welcome on all aspects of Static Analysis, including, but not limited to: * abstract interpretation, * data flow analysis, * verification systems, * program specialization, * abstract domains, * optimizing compilers, * theoretical frameworks, * type inference, * abstract model checking, * complexity analysis, * abstract testing, * security analysis. Submissions can address any programming paradigm, including concurrent, constraint, functional, imperative, logic and object-oriented programming. Survey papers that present some aspect of the above topics with a new coherence are also welcome. Papers must describe original work, be written and presented in English, and must not substantially overlap with papers that have been published or that are simultaneously submitted to a journal or a conference with refereed proceedings. Submission Instructions ----------------------- All submissions must be performed electronically at http://clip.dia.fi.upm.es/SAS02/submission.html. Submitted papers should be at most 15 pages excluding bibliography and well-marked appendices. Program committee members are not required to read the appendices, and thus papers should be intelligible without them. The proceedings will be published by Springer-Verlag in the Lecture Notes in Computer Science series (see http://www.springer.de/comp/lncs/authors.html for the LNCS author instructions). Thus, adhering to that style already in the submission is strongly encouraged. Papers should be submitted either in PostScript or PDF format and they should be interpretable by Ghostscript or Acrobat Reader. Papers must be printable on either A4 paper or US letter, and preferably on both. Important Dates --------------- May 10, 2002 Extended submission deadline (hard) June 10, 2002 Notification June 30, 2002 Final version Sept 17-20, 2002 SAS'02 Program Committee ----------------- Manuel Hermenegildo (Chair) Technical University of Madrid, Spain German Puebla (Co-chair) Technical University of Madrid, Spain Radhia Cousot Ecole Polytechnique, France Saumya Debray The University of Arizona, USA Manuel Fahndrich Microsoft Research, USA Roberto Giacobazzi Univerity of Verona, Italy Chris Hankin Imperial College, UK Giorgio Levi Univerity of Pisa, Italy Kim Marriott Monash University, Australia Alan Mycroft Cambridge University, United Kingdom Ganesan Ramalingam IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, USA Martin Rinard Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA Shmuel Sagiv Tel-Aviv Univerisity, Israel Reinhard Wilhelm Universitat des Saarlandes, Germany Contact Info ------------ Email: sas02@clip.dia.fi.upm.es Fax: + 34 91 352 4819 Phone: + 34 91 336 7448 Post: Manuel Hermenegildo (Ref.: SAS'02) Facultad de Informatica Universidad Politecnica de Madrid 28660 Boadilla del Monte Madrid, Spain ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From oinutter@hotmail.com Fri May 3 11:53:00 2002 From: oinutter@hotmail.com (Warrick Gray) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 22:53:00 +1200 Subject: tricky instance declarations Message-ID: Hi all, I'm not very current on the latest wonders of haskell typing, but I feel that something like the following should be possible: data ConnError = ... -- error propagating monad: instance Monad (Either ConnError) where (Left e) >>= _ = Left e (Right v) >>= f = f v return = Right -- combined IO & error propagating monads instance Monad (IO (Either ConnError a)) where -- (>>=) :: IO (Either ConnError a) -- -> (a -> IO (Either ConnError b)) -- -> IO (Either ConnError b) m >>= f = m >>= \e -> e >>= f return = return . return I know the first declaration works with GHC compiler flag "-fglasgow-exts", but something about the line "Monad (IO (Either ConnError a))" makes me (and the compiler) very nervous. How should I be expressing this? Yours expectantly, Warrick. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From reid@cs.utah.edu Fri May 3 13:02:04 2002 From: reid@cs.utah.edu (Alastair Reid) Date: 03 May 2002 13:02:04 +0100 Subject: tricky instance declarations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Warrick Gray writes: > data ConnError = ... > > -- error propagating monad: > instance Monad (Either ConnError) where > -- combined IO & error propagating monads > instance Monad (IO (Either ConnError a)) where > I know the first declaration works with GHC compiler flag > "-fglasgow-exts", but something about the line "Monad (IO (Either > ConnError a))" makes me (and the compiler) very nervous. How should I > be expressing this? You're probably seeing problems because Monad is a constructor class (i.e., expects an argument of kind * -> *) not a type class (which would expect an argument of kind *). You used Monad correctly in the first instance declaration (i.e., there's no mention of 'a') but not in the second (you did mention the 'a'). Unfortunately, the fix is slightly awkward. What you want to write is something like: > instance Monad (IO . Either ConnError) where but you can't use . to compose type constructors the way you can compose functions so that doesn't work. What you have to do is: > newtype IOE a = MkIOE (IO (Either ConnError a)) > unIOE (MkIOE x) = x > instance Monad IOE where ... or, generalizing slightly so that you only have to go through the pain of this once: > newtype IOF m a = MkIOF (IO (m a)) > unIOF (MkIOF x) = x > instance Monad (IOF (Either ConnError)) where ... Of course, the easiest fix is to use the fact that the IO monad has error propagation built into it. If you can encode your errors as strings, you're all set (or you could use the GHC Dynamic extensions if non-portability doesn't disturb). Hope this helps, Alastair Reid From ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de Fri May 3 13:58:03 2002 From: ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de (Ralf Hinze) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:58:03 +0200 Subject: CFP: JFP Special Issue on Functional Pearls Message-ID: <200205031458.03198.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Apologies if you receive multiple copies... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D CALL FOR PAPERS Special Issue on Functional Pearls http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/necklace.html [Deadline: 31 August 2002] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Wer die Perle in H=E4nden = h=E4lt, fragt nicht nach der Musch= el. - Peter Ben= ary A special issue of the Journal of Functional Programming will be devoted to Functional Pearls. The submission deadline is 31 August 2002. Scope ----- Do you have a paper that is small, rounded and enjoyable to read? Please consider submitting it to the Special Issue on Functional Pearls, as we intend to string a shiny necklace. If you don't have a pearl, write one today! Papers can be on any subject connected to functional programming. A pearl is typically around 8 pages, though there is no strict page limit. The special issue also welcomes tutorial or educational papers in a broad sense. Submission details ------------------ Manuscripts should be unpublished works and not submitted elsewhere. Revised and polished versions of papers published in conference proceedings that have not appeared in archival journals are eligible for submission. All submissions will be reviewed according to the usual standards of scholarship and judged by elegance of development and clarity of expression. One of the main reviewers will be Richard Bird, the editor of JFP's regular Functional Pearls column. Deadline for submission: 31 August 2002 Notification of acceptance or rejection: 30 November 2002 Revised version due: 31 January 2003 Submissions should be sent to the Guest Editor (see address below), with a copy to Nasreen Ahmad (nasreen@dcs.gla.ac.uk). Submitted articles should be sent in PDF or Postscript format, preferably gzipped and uuencoded. The use of the JFP style files is strongly recommended. In addition, please send, as plain text, title, abstract (if any), and contact information. The submission deadline is 31 August 2002. Authors will be notified of acceptance or rejection by 30 November 2002. Revised versions are due on 31 January 2003. For other submission details, please consult an issue of the Journal of Functional Programming or see the Journal's web page at http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/jfp/. Guest Editor ------------ Ralf Hinze Institut f=FCr Informatik III Universit=E4t Bonn R=F6merstra=DFe 164 53117 Bonn, Germany Telephone: +49 (2 28) 73 - 45 35 Fax: +49 (2 28) 73 - 43 82 Email: ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de WWW: http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D From ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de Fri May 3 14:29:57 2002 From: ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de (Ralf Hinze) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:29:57 +0200 Subject: Syntax highlighting for KDE's Kate Message-ID: <200205031529.57758.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Dear KDE users, I've hacked syntax highlighting files for Kate, KDE's editor. Feel free to use or to modify them. =09http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/software.html#syntax Cheers, Ralf From hdaume@ISI.EDU Fri May 3 17:15:23 2002 From: hdaume@ISI.EDU (Hal Daume III) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: duplicate instance declarations Message-ID: Why is this a duplicate instance declaration: > class C a > class D b > data T a b > instance (C (T a b), C a) => D b > instance (C (T a b), C b) => D a These are symmetric, but not duplicate, as I see it. -- Hal Daume III "Computer science is no more about computers | hdaume@isi.edu than astronomy is about telescopes." -Dijkstra | www.isi.edu/~hdaume From C.T.McBride@durham.ac.uk Fri May 3 18:05:32 2002 From: C.T.McBride@durham.ac.uk (C T McBride) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:05:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: duplicate instance declarations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi > Why is this a duplicate instance declaration: > > > class C a > > class D b > > data T a b > > instance (C (T a b), C a) => D b > > instance (C (T a b), C b) => D a > > These are symmetric, but not duplicate, as I see it. Suppose we add instance C () instance C (T () ()) Now there are two ways to build an instance of D (). The class mechanism is based on an open world assumption, hence declarations must be rejected if they can subsequently be made to overlap. If two instance `conclusions' unify, as (D a) and (D b) do, we can make them overlap by ensuring that both sets of `premises' hold. In general, instance inference amounts to proof search, or the execution of a logic program. It requires quite serious restrictions to ensure that a given set of instance declarations will always result in terminating and deterministic search. Relaxing those restrictions, as in ghc -fdont-tell-my-mum, leaves us able to write nonterminating compile-time programs. Indeed, we even find the compiler `deriving' them for us. By the way, critics of Cayenne should note that the only reason its typechecking is undecidable is that you can execute non-terminating programs at compile-time. Funny-type-class Haskell is just as bad. Just as I argue with respect to the type system (type-lambda etc), I'd suggest that extending the expressivity of the class system does no harm, provided we cease to presume that instance inference must always be fully automatic. If there is a way to give the construction of an instance explicitly, then we can always make clear those things the machine can't figure out for itself. Just like typechecking, instance-finding is a partnership between people and machines: the machines should figure out as much as possible, but the people should always be able to help. Cheers Conor From bhuffman@galois.com Fri May 3 18:29:44 2002 From: bhuffman@galois.com (Brian Huffman) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:29:44 -0700 Subject: Syntax highlighting for KDE's Kate In-Reply-To: <200205031529.57758.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> References: <200205031529.57758.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <200205031029.44566.bhuffman@galois.com> --------------Boundary-00=_KXPJ98XKWX73HSTKAH1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Friday 03 May 2002 06:29 am, Ralf Hinze wrote: > Dear KDE users, > > I've hacked syntax highlighting files for Kate, KDE's editor. > Feel free to use or to modify them. > > http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/software.html#syntax > > Cheers, Ralf Attached here is another syntax highlighting file for Kate that I wrote; it closely follows the haskell report for things like character literals and the maximal-munch rule for comments. I haven't gotten around to writing a version for literate haskell files, but maybe someone else could try to adapt it. Feel free to try it out. Even if you don't use Kate for editing, you can still use the highlighting file with the embedded text viewer in Konqueror. - Brian Huffman --------------Boundary-00=_KXPJ98XKWX73HSTKAH1B Content-Type: text/xml; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="hs.xml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="hs.xml" case class data default deriving do else if import in infix infixl infixr instance let module newtype of primitive then type where --------------Boundary-00=_KXPJ98XKWX73HSTKAH1B-- From hdaume@ISI.EDU Fri May 3 18:33:20 2002 From: hdaume@ISI.EDU (Hal Daume III) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: duplicate instance declarations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cool, thanks, that made sense. > [lots of stuff snipped] What's the difference, then, between "duplicate instances" and "overlapping" instances? It seems that even with -fallow-overlapping-instances and even -fallow-undecidable-instances ghc still rejects the code I had. From scm@comlab.ox.ac.uk Fri May 3 21:58:51 2002 From: scm@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Shin-Cheng Mu) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 21:58:51 +0100 Subject: Deforestration harmful? Message-ID: <923D2B7B-5ED8-11D6-BA5F-0050E459B742@comlab.ox.ac.uk> Hi all, We encountered a case where elimination of intermediate data structure seeems to have a bad impact on the overall performance and we were wondering why. Relationally, our program would be as simple as: f . g where g :: Seed -> Tree1 and f :: Tree1 -> Tree2. Basically g generate some kind of tree via an unfold and f map a Tree1 to some (usually 3 or 4) Tree2. In reality we have to implement relations as set (or list) valued functions, so it becomes concat . map f. g where g looks like g seed = [ z | (s1, s2) <- split seed, x <- g s1, y <- g s2, z <- join x y ] The relation f was almost as simple as a replacing each constructor in Tree1 with one or more coresponding constructors in Tree2. They two can be fused together and becomes fg seed = [ z | (s1, s2) <- split seed, x <- fg s1, y <- fg s2, z <- join' x y ] The intermediate datatype Tree1 was thus eliminated. The problem was: the fused program ran slower than the original one! At least if you measure the total running time (either via the UNIX time command or use the CPUTime module). The time reported in the GHC time profile indeed showed that the fused program is faster, though, if GC time is excluded. We were quite curious why and my guess was: since f maps a Tree1 to more than one Tree2, in the two list comprehensions, the list produced by (fg s2) is much longer than (g s2). The fused program thus has to keep a longer list in memory. Worse heap residency results in more GCs. (Luckily GHC did not attempt to automatically perform the fusion for us! :) ) An obvious thing to try was to increase the heap size. Again we were surprised. Indeed the GC time decreased but the running time in the profile (excluding the GC time) increased a bit. Our guess was that it might have something to do with the way GHC allocates new memory cells such that larger heap results in longer allocation time. It was quite tricky to find the best heap size at which the program runs at maximal speed. Are the above guesses are plausible? Is it a known phenomena? Thank you very much. sincerely, Shin-Cheng Mu From ashley@semantic.org Sat May 4 01:38:12 2002 From: ashley@semantic.org (Ashley Yakeley) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:38:12 -0700 Subject: ANNOUNCE: Haddock version 0.1, a Haskell documentation tool Message-ID: <200205040038.RAA26430@mail4.halcyon.com> At 2002-05-01 04:48, Simon Marlow wrote: >I'm pleased to announce version 0.1 of Haddock, a documentation >generation tool for Haskell source code. I take it this is the "standard" Haskell documentation tool now, that implementations of the standard libraries will use? I've been waiting for something like this. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA From mpeti_k03@diplomats.com Sat May 4 13:35:26 2002 From: mpeti_k03@diplomats.com (laurent mpeti kabila) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:35:26 +0200 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020504123137.EC7F14220BE@www.haskell.org> REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE -------------------------------------- I stumbled into your contact by stroke of luck after a long search for an honest and trust worthy person who could handle issue with high confidentiality=2E I was so dilghted when i got your contact and i decided to contact you and solicite for your kind assistance=2E i hope you will let this issue to remain confidential even if you are not interested because of my status=2E I am Laurent Mpeti Kabila =28Jnr=29 the second son of Late President LAURENT DESIRE KABILA the immediate Past president of the DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO in Africa who was murdered by his opposition through his personal bodyguards in his bedroom on Tuesday 16th January=2C 2001=2E I have the privilege of being mandated by my father=2Cs colleagues to seek your immediate and urgent co-operation to receive into your bank account the sum of US $25m=2E =28twenty-five million Dollars=29 and some thousands carats of Diamond=2E This money and treasures was lodged in a vault with a security firm in Europe and South-Africa=2E SOURCES OF DIAMONDS AND FUND In August 2000=2C my father as a defence minister and president has a meeting with his cabinet and armychief about the defence budget for 2000 to 2001 which was US $700m=2E so he directed one of his best friend=2E Frederic Kibasa Maliba who was a minister of mines and a political party leader known as the Union Sacree de=2Copposition radicale et ses allies =28USORAL=29 to buy arms with US $200m on 5th January 2001=3B for him to finalize the arms deal=2Cmy father was murdered=2E f=2EK=2E Maliba =28FKM=29 and I have decided to keep the money with a foreigner after which he will use it to contest for the political election=2E Inspite of all this we have resolved to present you or your company for the firm to pay it into your nominated account the above sum and diamonds=2E This transaction should be finalized within seven =287=29 working days and for your co-operation and partnership=2C we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to 5=2E5% of the money when successfully receive it in your account=2E The nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction what we require is your total co-operation and commitment to ensure 100%risk-free transaction at both ends and to protect the persons involved in this transaction strict confidence and utmost secrecy is required even after the uccessful conclusion of this transaction=2E If this proposal is acceptable to you=2C kindly provide me with your personal telephone and fax through my E-mail box for immediate commencement of the transaction=2E I count on your honour to keep my secret=2C SECRET=2E Looking forward for your urgent reply Thanks=2E Best Regards MPETI L=2E KABILA =28Jnr=29 From dnovatchev@yahoo.com Sat May 4 14:05:45 2002 From: dnovatchev@yahoo.com (Dimitre Novatchev) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Bug in the scaling of randoms in "Haskel: The Craft of Functional Programming" Message-ID: <20020504130545.43660.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> In his excellent book Simon Thompson defines scaling of the elements of a sequence of random numbers from the interval [0, 65535] to an interval [s,t] in the following way (top of page 368): > scaleSequence :: Int -> Int -> [Int] -> [Int] > scaleSequence s t > = map scale > where > scale n = n `div` denom + s > range = t - s + 1 > denom = modulus `div` range where modulus = 65536 However, the following expression: > e4000 = (scaleSequence 1 966 ([65231] ++ [1..965]))!!0 evaluates to 974 -- clearly outside of the specified interval. I'm using the following scaling function, the correctness of which I believe can be proven: > randScale :: Float -> Float -> Int -> Int > randScale s t n = floor (rndScl ((t - s + 1)/ dintRange ) s n) > where dintRange = fromInt (modulus - 1) > rndScl :: Float -> Float -> Int -> Float > rndScl a b n = a * fromInt n + b > scaleSequence2 :: Int -> Int -> [Int] -> [Int] > scaleSequence2 s t > = map scale > where > scale n = randScale (fromInt s) (fromInt t) n Could somebody please, provide a corrected definition that still uses modulo arithmetics? Cheers, Dimitre Novatchev. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From dominic.j.steinitz@britishairways.com Sat May 4 18:30:15 2002 From: dominic.j.steinitz@britishairways.com (dominic.j.steinitz@britishairways.com) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 18:30:15 +0100 Subject: C Header File Conversion Message-ID: I need to use values that are kept in a C header file - see below for an extract of the header file. What I'd like to be able to say is import Word import Bits data ICMPType = EchoReply | ICMPType1 | ICMPType2 | DestUnreach | SourceQuench ... deriving Enum encode :: ICMPType -> Word8 encode x = fromIntegral (fromEnum x) Is this a sensible approach? Are there any tools that could help? C->Haskell and HaskellDirect look possibilities but I'd welcome advice before I try and install them. Many thanks, Dominic. #define ICMP_ECHOREPLY 0 /* Echo Reply */ #define ICMP_DEST_UNREACH 3 /* Destination Unreachable */ #define ICMP_SOURCE_QUENCH 4 /* Source Quench */ #define ICMP_REDIRECT 5 /* Redirect (change route) */ #define ICMP_ECHO 8 /* Echo Request */ #define ICMP_TIME_EXCEEDED 11 /* Time Exceeded */ #define ICMP_PARAMETERPROB 12 /* Parameter Problem */ #define ICMP_TIMESTAMP 13 /* Timestamp Request */ #define ICMP_TIMESTAMPREPLY 14 /* Timestamp Reply */ #define ICMP_INFO_REQUEST 15 /* Information Request */ #define ICMP_INFO_REPLY 16 /* Information Reply */ #define ICMP_ADDRESS 17 /* Address Mask Request */ #define ICMP_ADDRESSREPLY 18 /* Address Mask Reply */ #define NR_ICMP_TYPES 18 From chak@cse.unsw.edu.au Sat May 4 22:09:58 2002 From: chak@cse.unsw.edu.au (Manuel M. T. Chakravarty) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 07:09:58 +1000 Subject: C Header File Conversion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020505070958N.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> dominic.j.steinitz@britishairways.com wrote, > I need to use values that are kept in a C header file - see below for an > extract of the header file. What I'd like to be able to say is > > import Word > import Bits > > data ICMPType = EchoReply > | ICMPType1 > | ICMPType2 > | DestUnreach > | SourceQuench ... > deriving Enum > > encode :: ICMPType -> Word8 > encode x = fromIntegral (fromEnum x) > > Is this a sensible approach? Are there any tools that could help? > C->Haskell and HaskellDirect look possibilities but I'd welcome advice > before I try and install them. Regarding C->Haskell, conversion of C enumerations into Haskell type definitions is what enum hooks are for, BUT doing this fully automatically from #define'd enumerations is not yet implemented. Thus, you would have to define (in a C header) enum ICMPType { ECHOREPLY = ICMP_ECHOREPLY, ICMPType1 = 1, /* you can leave these two off and c2hs */ ICMPType2 = 2, /* will still generate the right Enum instance */ DEST_UNREACH = ICMP_DEST_UNREACH, ... }; Then, the binding hooks {#enum ICMPType {underscoreToCase}#} would exactly do what you want. I plan to extend C->Haskell so that you don't have to write the C enum declaration manually, but you will, then, have to list the names of the enumeration values in the binding module. But this extension will only be after the next binary release of c2hs. Cheers, Manuel From mpeti_k01@diplomats.com Sat May 4 23:01:13 2002 From: mpeti_k01@diplomats.com (mpeti laurent kabila) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 00:01:13 +0200 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020504215724.877E44220BE@www.haskell.org> REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE -------------------------------------- I stumbled into your contact by stroke of luck after a long search for an honest and trust worthy person who could handle issue with high confidentiality=2E I was so dilghted when i got your contact and i decided to contact you and solicite for your kind assistance=2E i hope you will let this issue to remain confidential even if you are not interested because of my status=2E I am Laurent Mpeti Kabila =28Jnr=29 the second son of Late President LAURENT DESIRE KABILA the immediate Past president of the DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO in Africa who was murdered by his opposition through his personal bodyguards in his bedroom on Tuesday 16th January=2C 2001=2E I have the privilege of being mandated by my father=2Cs colleagues to seek your immediate and urgent co-operation to receive into your bank account the sum of US $25m=2E =28twenty-five million Dollars=29 and some thousands carats of Diamond=2E This money and treasures was lodged in a vault with a security firm in Europe and South-Africa=2E SOURCES OF DIAMONDS AND FUND In August 2000=2C my father as a defence minister and president has a meeting with his cabinet and armychief about the defence budget for 2000 to 2001 which was US $700m=2E so he directed one of his best friend=2E Frederic Kibasa Maliba who was a minister of mines and a political party leader known as the Union Sacree de=2Copposition radicale et ses allies =28USORAL=29 to buy arms with US $200m on 5th January 2001=3B for him to finalize the arms deal=2Cmy father was murdered=2E f=2EK=2E Maliba =28FKM=29 and I have decided to keep the money with a foreigner after which he will use it to contest for the political election=2E Inspite of all this we have resolved to present you or your company for the firm to pay it into your nominated account the above sum and diamonds=2E This transaction should be finalized within seven =287=29 working days and for your co-operation and partnership=2C we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to 5=2E5% of the money when successfully receive it in your account=2E The nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction what we require is your total co-operation and commitment to ensure 100%risk-free transaction at both ends and to protect the persons involved in this transaction strict confidence and utmost secrecy is required even after the uccessful conclusion of this transaction=2E If this proposal is acceptable to you=2C kindly provide me with your personal telephone and fax through my E-mail box for immediate commencement of the transaction=2E I count on your honour to keep my secret=2C SECRET=2E Looking forward for your urgent reply Thanks=2E Best Regards MPETI L=2E KABILA =28Jnr=29 From dfeuer@cs.brown.edu Sun May 5 02:55:53 2002 From: dfeuer@cs.brown.edu (David Feuer) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:55:53 -0400 Subject: let's can this spam? In-Reply-To: <20020504215724.877E44220BE@www.haskell.org>; from mpeti_k01@diplomats.com on Sun, May 05, 2002 at 12:01:13AM +0200 References: <20020504215724.877E44220BE@www.haskell.org> Message-ID: <20020504215553.D26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu> I've gotten a whole lot of copies of this message off the haskell list, and I'm starting to get annoyed. Would it be possible to put a filter on the list? On Sun, May 05, 2002, mpeti laurent kabila wrote: > REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE > -------------------------------------- > I stumbled into your contact by stroke of luck after a > long search for an honest and trust worthy person who > could handle issue with high confidentiality. > I was so dilghted when i got your contact and i decided > to contact you and solicite for your kind assistance. > i hope you will let this issue to remain confidential even > if you are not interested because of my status. > From dfeuer@cs.brown.edu Sun May 5 02:57:00 2002 From: dfeuer@cs.brown.edu (David Feuer) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:57:00 -0400 Subject: let's can this spam? In-Reply-To: <20020504215553.D26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu>; from dfeuer@cs.brown.edu on Sat, May 04, 2002 at 09:55:53PM -0400 References: <20020504215724.877E44220BE@www.haskell.org> <20020504215553.D26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020504215700.E26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu> Eek. Sorry folks. Should have sent this to the admin..... On Sat, May 04, 2002, David Feuer wrote: > I've gotten a whole lot of copies of this message off the haskell list, > and I'm starting to get annoyed. Would it be possible to put a filter > on the list? > > > On Sun, May 05, 2002, mpeti laurent kabila wrote: > > REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE > > -------------------------------------- > > I stumbled into your contact by stroke of luck after a > > long search for an honest and trust worthy person who > > could handle issue with high confidentiality. > > I was so dilghted when i got your contact and i decided > > to contact you and solicite for your kind assistance. > > i hope you will let this issue to remain confidential even > > if you are not interested because of my status. > > > _______________________________________________ > Haskell mailing list > Haskell@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell -- Night. An owl flies o'er rooftops. The moon sheds its soft light upon the trees. David Feuer From peterson-john@cs.yale.edu Sun May 5 02:58:34 2002 From: peterson-john@cs.yale.edu (John Peterson) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:58:34 -0400 Subject: let's can this spam? In-Reply-To: <20020504215553.D26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu> (message from David Feuer on Sat, 4 May 2002 21:55:53 -0400) References: <20020504215724.877E44220BE@www.haskell.org> <20020504215553.D26500@cslab7c.cs.brown.edu> Message-ID: <200205050158.g451wYu23735@ragged.cs.yale.edu> Funny you should ask. We've got despamming ready to test on Monday. So hang in there one more day and things should get better. John From jadrian@mat.uc.pt Sun May 5 22:42:29 2002 From: jadrian@mat.uc.pt (Jorge Adriano) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:42:29 +0100 Subject: Syntax highlighting for KDE's Kate In-Reply-To: <200205031529.57758.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> References: <200205031529.57758.ralf@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: <200205052242.29107.jadrian@mat.uc.pt> > Dear KDE users, > > I've hacked syntax highlighting files for Kate, KDE's editor. > Feel free to use or to modify them. > > =09http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/software.html#syntax Great! To bad the literate haskell mode doesn't work with the LaTeX kind of lite= rate=20 programming - \begin{code} ... \end{code} - that's how I've been coding a= ll=20 my haskell programs lately :) I'll probably hack it myself if/when I have the time. J.A. From timeismonie@btamail.net.cn Mon May 6 02:38:42 2002 From: timeismonie@btamail.net.cn (timeismonie@btamail.net.cn) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:38:42 -0500 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020506014345.BEE8742221B@www.haskell.org> SPECIAL SITUATION ALERTS NEWSLETTER HOT PICK OF THE YEAR Environmental Remediation Holding Corp. (d.b.a. Chrome Energy Corp) (OTCBB: ERHC) RECENT PRICE: $.20 SELL TARGET: $1.25 INVESTORS: WE HAVE FOUND THE HIDDEN GEM: (OTCBB: ERHC) The IMF (International Monetary Fund) states in a worldwide published report [February 2002 IMF Country Report No. 02/30 (page 10 of 82)] that ERHC's working interest in their offshore West African oil blocks will generate $1,446,800,000 in cumulative income over the next 22 years. The IMF provides this evaluation to its 183 Member Nations while promoting international monetary exchange and fostering economic trade and growth with an arsenal of $272 Billion! Dow Jones News: ERHC enters into joint-venture license agreements with Schlumberger LTD (NYSE: SLB, $53) and Baker Hughes, INC. (NYSE: BHI, $34) for seismic data on some of the richest offshore oil blocks in West Africa, where ERHC controls a huge working interest. Investor Alert: ERHC's joint-venture with SCHLUMBERGER and BAKER HUGHES puts them in world class company with these leaders in oil exploration and reservoir imaging services. The involvement of SLB and BHI reinforces the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR VALUE that has been placed in this offshore drilling haven. ERHC's goal is to maximize shareholder value from existing contractual rights, making them a significant player in this region. THE BIG MONEY ROLLS IN: The seismic data from this joint venture is being made available for further involvement by the LARGEST OIL COMPANIES IN THE WORLD over the next 2 weeks! Bidding wars have already developed between major oil companies such as: SHELL, CHEVRON/TEXACO, CONOCO, EXXON/MOBIL, PHILIPS, and MARATHON who are willing to pay Hundreds of Millions to drill in the oil blocks that border on ERHC's offshore zones. STOCK SET TO EXPLODE ON EARNINGS BOOM: "UPSTREAM", the International Oil and Gas Newspaper considered to be the equivalent of the "Wall Street Journal" for the Oil Industry, has stated in a number of articles that EXXON/MOBIL believes that the oil blocks "housing ERHC's working interest" contain over 8 BILLION BARRELS OF RECOVERABLE OIL TAKEOVERS RUNNING RAMPANT: Oil Companies of all sizes have been the target of significant mergers and takeovers during the past year. Many of these takeovers or buyouts have occurred due to the value of the acquired Company's offshore oil holdings in West Africa. One such example is Marathon Oil (NYSE: MRO, $28) paying $900 MILLION for the West African holdings of CMS Energy (NYSE: CMS, $23). We believe that ERHC and/or the Company's offshore oil interests could be the next target of a takeover. This is largely because of their exclusive right to participate in exploration and production along with OIL INDUSTRY GIANTS, as these oil blocks are adjacent to Billion Barrel producing regions! Global Stock Participation - On March 27, 2002--Chrome Energy Corporation ("Chrome") (OTCBB:ERHC), announced that its common stock has been approved for listing on the Berlin Stock Exchange in Germany. The Berlin Stock Exchange is the leading stock exchange in Europe for dual listings with over 6,000 American companies listed. Chrome's common stock began trading on March 28, 2002 Special Situation Alerts' Newsletter offers valuable research for serious investors with our Hot Pick Of The Year - ERHC This is a commercial email only and if you want to be removed email timeismonie@btamail.net.cn From Robin.Garner@crsrehab.gov.au Mon May 6 05:15:55 2002 From: Robin.Garner@crsrehab.gov.au (Garner, Robin) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 14:15:55 +1000 Subject: finding sublist Message-ID: <3F4430B9158BD211B3370008C7FAB01404908B1D@a010101e.crsrehab.gov.au> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F4B4.B78BAF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" See Dijkstra's 'Discipline of Programming' for an o(M + N) algorithm - naive approches are o(MN) where M and N are the length of the list and substring respectively. Essentially the algorithm calculates a sort of autocorrelation table of the substring, showing where to resume the search after a failed match. For example, if you're matching the substring [1,2,3,4], and fail on the last comparison, you already know that there's no point in advancing one element and attempting another match - you can actually start again at the element that failed. When matching the string [1,2,1,3], you can resume at the current element of the main string, and the second element of the search string. How you would do this in a functional implementation is another question - Dijkstra's example is comparing two arrays, and there may be inefficiencies translating it to a list-based implementation. Cheers -----Original Message----- From: Serge D. Mechveliani [mailto:mechvel@botik.ru] Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 17:37 To: haskell@haskell.org Subject: finding sublist Thanks to people who helped me with the task >> Import two space separated columns of integers from file. Claus Reinke recommends to exploit `lines'. Indeed, it bocomes shorter now: main = readFile "data" >>= (putStr . show . twoIntLists) where twoIntLists str = case span (not . null) $ dropWhile null $ lines str of (lns, lns') -> (readInts lns, readInts lns') readInts = map (\ str -> read str :: Integer) . dropWhile null Another question: has the Haskell Standard library a function for such a usable task as finding of occurence of a segment in a list? Say findSegmentBy (...) [2,2,3] [0,0,2,2,1,2,2,3,1,2,3] --> ([0,0,2,2,1], [2,2,3,1,2,3]) I have heard, an efficient algorithm (for large lists) for this is not so simple. ----------------- Serge Mechveliani mechvel@botik.ru _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F4B4.B78BAF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: finding sublist

See Dijkstra's 'Discipline of Programming' for an o(M = + N) algorithm - naive approches are o(MN) where M and N are the length = of the list and substring respectively.

Essentially the algorithm calculates a sort of = autocorrelation table of the substring, showing where to resume the = search after a failed match. For example, if you're matching the = substring [1,2,3,4], and fail on the last comparison, you already know = that there's no point in advancing one element and attempting another = match - you can actually start again at the element that failed. = When matching the string [1,2,1,3], you can resume at the current = element of the main string, and the second element of the search = string.

How you would do this in a functional implementation = is another question - Dijkstra's example is comparing two arrays, and = there may be inefficiencies translating it to a list-based = implementation.

Cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: Serge D. Mechveliani [mailto:mechvel@botik.ru]
Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 17:37
To: haskell@haskell.org
Subject: finding sublist

Thanks to people who helped me with the task

>> Import two space separated columns of = integers from file.

Claus Reinke <claus.reinke@talk21.com> = recommends to exploit `lines'.

Indeed, it bocomes shorter now:

main =3D readFile "data" >>=3D = (putStr . show . twoIntLists)
    where
    twoIntLists str =3D case = span (not . null) $ dropWhile null $ lines str
          &nb= sp;           = of
          &nb= sp;           &nb= sp; (lns, lns') -> (readInts lns, readInts lns')

readInts =3D map (\ str -> read = str :: Integer) . dropWhile null

Another question:
has the Haskell Standard library a function for such = a usable task
as finding of occurence of a segment in a list? Say =

findSegmentBy (...) [2,2,3] = [0,0,2,2,1,2,2,3,1,2,3] -->

&nb= sp; &nb= sp; ([0,0,2,2,1], = [2,2,3,1,2,3])

I have heard, an efficient algorithm (for large = lists) for this
is not so simple.

-----------------
Serge Mechveliani
mechvel@botik.ru
_______________________________________________
Haskell mailing list
Haskell@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell

Scott

3DF#=20

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Announcements

A presentation on F# is now available = (April=20 2002)

Coming soon: = The First F# Language Release (April=20 2002)

A new version = of the ILX reference manual is available. = This is=20 considerably updated from previous versions (January=20 2002)

Version 0.5 of the AbsIL/ILX SDK is now = available.(April=20 2002)

F# is a mixed functional/imperative programming language = based on=20 the design of the functional language Caml and the .NET language=20 C#.

Combining the speed, safety = and=20 productivity of ML and Caml with the libraries, tools and = cross-language=20 working of .NET

Mixed functional/imperative programming is a fantastic = paradigm for=20 many programming tasks. Languages such as OCaml and Standard = ML=20 provide excellent general purpose programming languages suited to=20 medium-advanced programmers who want simple yet highly expressive = tools=20 that boost their productivity, primarily by reducing the error = rate,=20 increasing their productivity through type inference, and = basically=20 letting them focus on the difficult parts of their=20 applications.

You can access hundreds of .NET libraries using F#. =

F#=20 is an implementation of the core of the Caml programming language = for the=20 .NET Framework, along with cross-language extensions. The = aim is to=20 have it work together seamlessly with C#, Visual Basic, SML.NET = and other=20 .NET programming languages. In particular it is the first ML = language where all the types and values in an ML program can be = accessed=20 from some significant languages (e.g. C#) in a predictable and = friendly=20 way.

The aim of F# is to have a mixed functional- = imperative=20 language that works together seamlessly with C# and other .NET=20 languages.

Purely functional languages like Haskell are excellent = within=20 certain niches, but many simple programming exercises can quickly = turn=20 into problems that require a PhD. to solve. Purely = imperative=20 programming languages like C or Pascal do not provide satisfying=20 mechanisms for abstraction or data manipulation. Purely = object=20 oriented languages like Smalltalk are excellent for some dynamic=20 applications but do not provide static guarantees. Typed = class-based=20 languages like C# and Java contain a very large number of = constructs, and=20 it can sometimes be difficult for programmers to choose how to = model their=20 problem, and sometimes result in very large amounts of code just = to solve=20 quite simple problems. In contrast, languages such as Caml = provide a=20 smaller number of simple, orthogonal constructs which work = together to=20 allow for succinct yet efficient solutions to programming=20 problems.

F# provides an implementation of a subset of the OCaml = libraries as=20 well as the ability to access .NET libraries. Using the .NET = libraries is optional.

F#=20 provides a subset of the OCaml libraries, so you don't have to use = .NET=20 libraries if it is not appropriate. It is possible to write = large=20 applications that can be cross-compiled as either OCaml bytecode, = OCaml=20 native code or F# code, for example, the F# compiler itself is = written=20 this way. This lets you reuse the investment you make in the = core of=20 a project while letting you write some parts of your application = as F#=20 code that makes use of .NET extensions.

The=20 following links will let you learn more about=20 F#:

<= !--msthemelist-->

	Basic programming in=20 = F#
	Using = C# and other=20 .NET libraries from = F#
	Using = F# libraries=20 from = C#
	Using the F# = library
	To access .NET constructs, see the extra language features = supported in=20 this=20 = release.
	Learn how to write=20 high-performance F# = code

F# also provides a simple, familiar set of = tools:

	A simple command line compiler, supporting separate = compilation, debug information and = optimization.
	F# supports features that are often missing from ML = implementations such as Unicode strings and dynamic = linking. =20 It also supports reflection to a limited degree, though only = via=20 .NET=20 = libraries.
	Tool support is strong when combined with tools = from the=20 (freely available) .NET Framework and/or Microsoft's Visual=20 Studio. For example the DbgClr.EXE tool in the .NET = Framework=20 SDK gives you a graphical debugger for=20 = F#.

F#=20 is, as far as I know, the first ML compiler to have good=20 binary-compatibility and versioning properties, = e.g.

	You can build DLLs (many ML compilers do not allow=20 = this)
	There is full fidelity between F# code in a DLL and = F# code=20 that calls the DLL (i.e. you can use F# constructs across = the DLL=20 boundary without any = problems);
	You can add a value to a module and the binaries = produced are=20 compatible. =20 =
	You can modify the internals of a module and the = binaries=20 will remain comaptible. The binary compatibility = properties=20 deteriorate if cross-module optimization is used). =

F#=20 also happens to be the first released .NET language that is able = to=20 produce Generic=20 IL, and the compiler was really designed with this target = language in=20 mind. However the compiler can also produce standard .NET = binaries, which=20 is just as well because there is no publicly available release of = a .NET=20 Common Language Runtime for .NET that supports generics. =

Design-wise, F# is essentially a .NET implementation of = the core of=20 the OCaml programming language, with some minor design = changes. The=20 design extends the core OCaml language by making some guarantees = about how=20 ML constructs appear to .NET languages and by allowing the = programmer to=20 access .NET libraries, primarily via an extended "." notation = (e.g.=20 "val.ToString()" to call a .NET method). For a full feature=20 comparison see the following = pages:

	Compare = F#, SML and=20 OCaml as languages..
	Compare these as = programming=20 environments, i.e. including debugging, compiling=20 etc.
	Compare F# and=20 = C#

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You might also be interested in SML.NET. Re Haskell.NET... We (OK, basically just me) got a fair amount of the way through a .NET backend for GHC, including a fully working compiler, but we got sidetracked into implementation issues that weren't related what we wanted to achieve in the first instance. In particular, (a) GHC is a complex beast, (b) you have to decide what to do about the libraries and (c) I wanted a much "lighter" end system than GHC was going to provide. Given the general complexity of GHC, the longish compile times and the reliance of the GHC library implementation on C and C libraries in so many places I decided to implement a simpler language from scratch. I like the idea that a .NET compiler should be under 10K lines of code if at all possible, as is the case for F#. Those of us at MSR have no particular plans to push further on Haskell.NET right now, but I know a number of other people have talked about taking a crack at it. Best wishes, Don Syme MSR Cambridge -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hudak [mailto:paul.hudak@yale.edu]=20 Sent: 30 May 2002 14:12 To: haskell@cs.yale.edu Subject: [Fwd: F#] Hey Simon et al at Micro$oft, when will there be an H#? (Ok, I'll settle for Haskell.NET :-) -Paul From tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk Thu May 30 15:24:50 2002 From: tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk (D. Tweed) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:24:50 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 May 2002, Don Syme wrote: > going to provide. Given the general complexity of GHC, the longish > compile times and the reliance of the GHC library implementation on C > and C libraries in so many places I decided to implement a simpler > language from scratch. I like the idea that a .NET compiler should be > under 10K lines of code if at all possible, as is the case for F#. Idle curiosity: which aspects of the Haskell language are the ones that make it complicated -- e.g., long-time stuff like lazy evaluation, typeclasses & inferrence, etc or newer stuff like functional dependencies, etc or something else entirely -- and do they only make it complicated in the context of the .NET architecture or in any implementation? (I'm just interested in that there's little chance of Haskell becoming more widespread if it's daunting enough to dissuade implementors.) ___cheers,_dave_________________________________________________________ www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~tweed/ | `It's no good going home to practise email:tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk | a Special Outdoor Song which Has To Be work tel:(0117) 954-5250 | Sung In The Snow' -- Winnie the Pooh From Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu May 30 15:35:28 2002 From: Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk (Jon Fairbairn) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:35:28 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 May 2002 09:11:59 EDT." <3CF6251F.53148C7E@yale.edu> Message-ID: <16126.1022769328@cl.cam.ac.uk> > Hey Simon et al at Micro$oft, when will there be an H#? But H# is C! we don't want that, surely? :-) J=F3n -- = J=F3n Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.u= k 31 Chalmers Road jf@cl.cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB1 3SZ +44 1223 570179 (after 14:00 only, please!) From Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu May 30 15:57:10 2002 From: Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk (Jon Fairbairn) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:57:10 +0100 Subject: layout rule infelicity In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 May 2002 12:42:11 +0200." <3CF60203.93777A54@tzi.de> Message-ID: <16304.1022770630@cl.cam.ac.uk> > I like layout but I think the existing rules are too > complicated. Unfortunat ely it's difficult to do anything > with them without breaking vast swathes of existing code, > so we'll just have to put up with them. Well, there's two things to consider: Haskell 98, which probably shouldn't change, and extended Haskell, which probably should. Especially if we can make the rules both simpler and better. > The reason I think layout is better than using {'s and ,'s is that huma= ns > use the layout to group the structure anyway, which means you can have = > confusing situations where a structure looks alright to a human but not= > to a computer. Which is exactly the problem with the programme I posted. Having thought about it a bit, it strikes me that the particular problem is the insertion of a closing brace. =46rom the human reader's point of view, there's no visual equivalent of the closing brace in the example: > possible_int =3D do skip_blanks > fmap Just int > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) What happens is that a semicolon is inserted because the indentation is the same as the previous line -- that's fair enough, subject to some quibbles about treating all expressions the same -- but then the +++ is a syntax error unless a closing brace is inserted. Visually, the equivalent of a closing brace is when indentation is less (to my eye it ought to be right down to where the 'do' is and inbetween be an error). What's wrong with the notion that closing braces should only be inserted when the indentation is less (or the file ends)? This would reject some programmes, but only ones where the appearance is misleading. So = > possible_int =3D do skip_blanks > fmap Just int > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > whatever ... parses as = > possible_int =3D do {skip_blanks > ;fmap Just int > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > } > whatever ... and > possible_int =3D do skip_blanks > fmap Just int > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > whatever ... parses as = > possible_int =3D do {skip_blanks > ;fmap Just int > ;+++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > } > whatever ... and then gives a syntax error but = > possible_int =3D do skip_blanks > fmap Just int > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > whatever ... parses as = > possible_int =3D do {skip_blanks > ;fmap Just int > } > +++ (literal "-" `as` Nothing) > whatever ... Which is just about acceptable to me, because the +++ does stick out, though I'd prefer that one to be rejected too. I wasn't fit enough to follow the earlier discussions of the layout rule, so I'm not sure how this interacts with previous awkward cases. I'd be happiest if we could come up with a rule that didn't involve sticking in braces and semicolons because it won't parse otherwise. Can someone remind me why the "A close brace is also inserted whenever the syntactic category containing the layout list ends" part of the rule is there? J=F3n -- = J=F3n Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.u= k 31 Chalmers Road jf@cl.cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB1 3SZ +44 1223 570179 (after 14:00 only, please!) From lennart@augustsson.net Thu May 30 16:05:34 2002 From: lennart@augustsson.net (Lennart Augustsson) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:05:34 -0400 Subject: layout rule infelicity References: <16304.1022770630@cl.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3CF63FBE.9F43286A@augustsson.net> Jon Fairbairn wrote: > > I wasn't fit enough to follow the earlier discussions of the > layout rule, so I'm not sure how this interacts with > previous awkward cases. I'd be happiest if we could come up > with a rule that didn't involve sticking in braces and > semicolons because it won't parse otherwise. Can someone > remind me why the "A close brace is also inserted whenever > the syntactic category containing the layout list ends" part > of the rule is there? It's so you can write let x = 2+2 in x*x (and similar things) I think this inserting a '}' when there would otherwise have been a syntax error is a terrible mistake. It makes it almost impossible to implement correctly, and to understand. But it's with us now in H98. -- Lennart From afie@cs.uu.nl Thu May 30 16:09:49 2002 From: afie@cs.uu.nl (Arjan van IJzendoorn) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:09:49 +0200 Subject: layout rule infelicity References: <16304.1022770630@cl.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <016e01c207ec$0c3d85b0$ec50d383@sushi> > Can someone remind me why the "A close brace is also inserted whenever > the syntactic category containing the layout list ends" part > of the rule is there? x = (3, case True of True -> 4) The ')' ends the syntactic category 'tuple' Arjan From Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu May 30 16:11:04 2002 From: Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk (Jon Fairbairn) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:11:04 +0100 Subject: IO and fold (was Re: fold on Monad? ) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 May 2002 10:25:27 BST." <003101c207bb$f010b220$ae1ffea9@Standard> Message-ID: <16359.1022771464@cl.cam.ac.uk> > >Yes you can define it, = > = > And you can, as well. Man sollte sich nicht darauf verlassen, da=DF ein Englander "man" verwendet, wenn es angebraucht w=E4re=B9. > That's how common idioms come into being; > there's no special magic about the folds already in existence. Well, my point is that there is -- indeed some ways of defining the type for lists use a fold as the starting point. I mentioned the lack here because I think there is some deeper structure that someone cleverer than me may be able to see. > = > >It seems to me that there's something odd about the way the > >IO monad interacts with bulk operations on files. = > = > That may be more related to IO than to the monadic approach > to it = Yes. Hence the change of subject line. = > >In particular, it seems odd that getContents should ever be the > >easiest way of tackling something, = > = > Who says that? I did! I think getContents is a klugey hangover from stream based I/O, and the existence of "semi-closed handles" supports that, so I'm hoping that people might become interested in looking at the question. > >One of the great things about fold is that you don't have to > >code the test for the end: it's encapsulated in the > >higher-order function. Shouldn't there be the same for IO? > = > Isn't it? > = > getContents =3D foldX (++) "" -- we drop the newlines here.. > getLines =3D foldX (:) [] > = > No eof-testing in sight. Sure, once we've defined foldX, but then we need to know whether it really is a fold &c. I should remember to make my messages to the list less indirect. > So we've mostly got a fold lifted into the io-monad, with getLine > delivering the "head" (and implicitly truncating further input to > the "tail"). What more do you want?-) Theory! That's what I want! Cheers, J=F3n 1. I had to get help with this; perhaps it would have been better to leave my numerous mistakes in it! -- = J=F3n Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.u= k 31 Chalmers Road jf@cl.cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB1 3SZ +44 1223 570179 (after 14:00 only, please!) From ger@tzi.de Thu May 30 16:18:04 2002 From: ger@tzi.de (George Russell) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:18:04 +0200 Subject: layout rule infelicity References: <16304.1022770630@cl.cam.ac.uk> <3CF63FBE.9F43286A@augustsson.net> Message-ID: <3CF642AB.1EF31A01@tzi.de> Jon Fairbairn wrote [snip] > Well, there's two things to consider: Haskell 98, which > probably shouldn't change, and extended Haskell, which > probably should. Especially if we can make the rules both > simpler and better. [snip] How can I resist? I proposed the following revised layout rule some time ago in a message to the Twa Simons. Note that unlike the standard Haskell layout rules it does not need to read the parser's mind. Of course the problem is that while it should work fine for the way I lay out Haskell, it might not work for other people. We represent the lines in a file in a tree like structure: data Grouped line = Grouped line [Grouped line] The meaning of Grouped A lines is a line A, followed by a list of groups, each beginning at the same deeper ind entation. So for example A B C D would go to something like Grouped A [Grouped B [Grouped C []],Grouped D []] In the code I've written A B C produces an error message, but on second thoughts I think the best behaviour wou ld be to treat it like A ++ B C though it's too late to code that now . . . The layout processor would group the lines according to this algorithm. It woul d then output the result of the grouping. When it came to Grouped first rest it would determine if the last token of first is "do", "of", "where" or "let", and rest does _not_ begin with a "{" token. If both these conditions were satis fied, it would output "{" before, ";" inbetween elements, and "}" after when outputting t he "rest" list. This seems to me to solve most of the fundamental problems, and be somewhat more intuitive than the existing algorithm. It would behave differently in that do if test then do act1 act2 else do act3 act4 is legal. But it would also be necessary to alter the context-free-syntax so th at (1) the contents of the module were not separated by ";"'s, but by each being a single item in the [Grouped line] list. (The old where {decl1 ; decl2 ; . . . ; decln} syntax would probably have to remain, for compatibility reasons). (2) single-line forms without braces, like "let a = 5 in a+a" work. This is only a first approximation, in that do if test then do act1 act2 else do act3 act4 isn't legal. Perhaps one way of fixing this is to modify the layout algorithm s o that tokens such as "then", "else", "in" and ")" before which a semicolon can't make any sense anyway, get tagged onto the previous group if that began at the same column as t hey did. I don't claim this as the perfect solution. But since layout is something which is rather confusing and at the moment seems to have distinctly rough edges, it might be wo rthwhile experimenting with something like this, to see how much code it would break From Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu May 30 16:19:17 2002 From: Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk (Jon Fairbairn) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:19:17 +0100 Subject: layout rule infelicity In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 May 2002 17:09:49 +0200." <016e01c207ec$0c3d85b0$ec50d383@sushi> Message-ID: <16431.1022771957@cl.cam.ac.uk> I wrote: > > Can someone remind me why the "A close brace is also inserted wheneve= r > > the syntactic category containing the layout list ends" part > > of the rule is there? Lennart wrote: > It's so you can write > let x =3D 2+2 in x*x > (and similar things) and Arjan van IJzendoorn wrote: > x =3D (3, case True of = > True -> 4) > = > The ')' ends the syntactic category 'tuple' So we get all this misery just so that people can cram things onto fewer lines? > let x =3D 2+2 in x*x could be > let {x =3D 2+2} in x*x or > let x =3D 2+2 > in x*x and = > x =3D (3, case True of = > True -> 4 > ) would be fine. I'd like to see a "-fuse-simpler-layout-rule"=B9 option on the compilers. . . J=F3n 1. Why "-f" anyway? It took me ages to work out what "-fallow-overlapping-instances" meant -- I wondered how "fallow" could apply to overlapping instances. -- = J=F3n Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.u= k 31 Chalmers Road jf@cl.cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB1 3SZ +44 1223 570179 (after 14:00 only, please!) From sof@galois.com Thu May 30 16:20:33 2002 From: sof@galois.com (Sigbjorn Finne) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:20:33 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: <010001c207ed$8a9a8060$1e32a8c0@sofxp> Paul Hudak paul.hudak@yale.edu writes: > > Hey Simon et al at Micro$oft, when will there be an H#? > (Ok, I'll settle for Haskell.NET :-) There's hugs98.net and it's with us now: http://galois.com/~sof/hugs98.net/ --sigbjorn From dsyme@microsoft.com Thu May 30 16:52:25 2002 From: dsyme@microsoft.com (Don Syme) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:52:25 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: Hey Sigbjorn, that looks great! I'll look forward to trying it out. Perhaps when the source release is available someone could look at getting hugs98.net to be able to interop. with ILX components as well, making combined F#/hugs98.net apps feasible. I'm one who believe both Haskell and ML have their place :-) Best wishes, Don -----Original Message----- From: Sigbjorn Finne [mailto:sof@galois.com]=20 Sent: 30 May 2002 16:21 To: haskell@haskell.org Cc: paul.hudak@yale.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: F#] Paul Hudak paul.hudak@yale.edu writes: >=20 > Hey Simon et al at Micro$oft, when will there be an H#? > (Ok, I'll settle for Haskell.NET :-) There's hugs98.net and it's with us now: http://galois.com/~sof/hugs98.net/ --sigbjorn _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell From dsyme@microsoft.com Thu May 30 17:08:00 2002 From: dsyme@microsoft.com (Don Syme) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: Sigbjorn has already shown how a non-IL-generating approach is possible. I think a simple implementation of a Haskell.NET compiling to IL is feasible, especially if you're willing to do the interop with .NET components by extending the language as with F# or SML.NET. It's more that GHC is a bit of a complex point to start from. Of course doing a full Haskell implementation from scratch requires an intimate knowledge of all the features you mention, and is the sort of thing one only tends to get right on the second or third time you do it. And getting top-notch performance is obviously always a huge challenge for Haskell, and you can't play some common implementation tricks when compiling to IL. But the only truly serious complications added by .NET itself are (a) the general problem of Haskell interop with imperative libraries, requiring you to reach for monads quite often (or to wrap the libraries yourself) and (b) the well-known problems of combining type inference, subtyping and overloading, to which you can take a high-tech approach by using a fancy constraint or inference system, or a low-tech approach by requiring the programmer to add a few more type annotations than they may wish. F# takes the latter approach. IMHO problem (a) will always be the thing that stops Haskell becoming very very big. But then being non-imperative it's also its main selling point... Best wishes, Don -----Original Message----- From: D. Tweed [mailto:tweed@compsci.bristol.ac.uk]=20 Sent: 30 May 2002 15:25 To: Don Syme Cc: Paul Hudak; haskell Subject: RE: [Fwd: F#] On Thu, 30 May 2002, Don Syme wrote: > going to provide. Given the general complexity of GHC, the longish > compile times and the reliance of the GHC library implementation on C > and C libraries in so many places I decided to implement a simpler > language from scratch. I like the idea that a .NET compiler should be > under 10K lines of code if at all possible, as is the case for F#. Idle curiosity: which aspects of the Haskell language are the ones that make it complicated -- e.g., long-time stuff like lazy evaluation, typeclasses & inferrence, etc or newer stuff like functional dependencies, etc or something else entirely -- and do they only make it complicated in the context of the .NET architecture or in any implementation? (I'm just interested in that there's little chance of Haskell becoming more widespread if it's daunting enough to dissuade implementors.) ___cheers,_dave_________________________________________________________ www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~tweed/ | `It's no good going home to practise email:tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk | a Special Outdoor Song which Has To Be work tel:(0117) 954-5250 | Sung In The Snow' -- Winnie the Pooh From paul.hudak@yale.edu Thu May 30 18:04:16 2002 From: paul.hudak@yale.edu (Paul Hudak) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:04:16 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: F#] References: Message-ID: <3CF65B90.317571C5@yale.edu> Hi Don -- Thanks for all the informative stuff regarding FP implementations on .NET. However I am a little surprised by one thing you say: > ... But the only truly serious complications added by .NET > itself are (a) the general problem of Haskell interop with imperative > libraries, requiring you to reach for monads quite often (or to wrap > the libraries yourself) and (b) ... > > IMHO problem (a) will always be the thing that stops Haskell becoming > very very big. But then being non-imperative it's also its main > selling point... Are you saying that Haskell users would reject this? (to which I would disagree, since that's what we would expect) Or new users? (to which I would say that the jury is out) I would think that the biggest impediment to Haskell.NET would be efficiency, in both the generated code (primarily because of lazy evaluation) and in compile time (at least with an optimizing compiler such as GHC). -Paul From dsyme@microsoft.com Thu May 30 18:30:29 2002 From: dsyme@microsoft.com (Don Syme) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:30:29 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: > > ... But the only truly serious complications added by .NET > > itself are (a) the general problem of Haskell interop with imperative > > libraries, requiring you to reach for monads quite often (or to wrap > > the libraries yourself) and (b) ... > > > > IMHO problem (a) will always be the thing that stops Haskell becoming > > very very big. But then being non-imperative it's also its main > > selling point... >=20 > Are you saying that Haskell users would reject this? (to which I would > disagree, since that's what we would expect) Or new users? (to which I > would say that the jury is out) I was meaning "hundreds of thousands of new users", which is why I put "very very big". There's still plenty of scope for Haskell to become just "very big" without fully solving this problem. > I would think that the biggest impediment to Haskell.NET would be > efficiency, in both the generated code (primarily because of lazy > evaluation) and in compile time (at least with an optimizing compiler > such as GHC). These are problems, though not unique to a Haskell.NET. You are right that the code performance of Hasekll.NET will not typically be as good as say GHC and this may require more optimizations that take considerable time. But I think a clean re-implementation of a judiciously chosen subset of the GHC optimizations with a focus on getting good compilation speeds (i.e. the same agenda that the Caml team have followed) would see you over this hurdle. You'd be able to get the performance needed to attract new programmers, though of course other Haskell compiler writers may still claim the overall performance crown. Best wishes, Don From jmaessen@mit.edu Thu May 30 18:48:21 2002 From: jmaessen@mit.edu (Jan-Willem Maessen) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:48:21 -0400 Subject: Thesis on efficiently Eager Haskell Message-ID: <200205301748.NAA01056@life-savers.lcs.mit.edu> My dissertation, "Hybrid Eager and Lazy Evaluation for Efficient Compilation of Haskell", is now available on the web: http://www.csg.lcs.mit.edu/~earwig/thesis.html Abstract (1st paragraph only): The advantage of a non-strict, purely functional language such as Haskell lies in its clean equational semantics. However, lazy implementations of Haskell fall short: they cannot express tail recursion gracefully without annotation. We describe resource-bounded hybrid evaluation, a mixture of strict and lazy evaluation, and its realization in Eager Haskell. From the programmer's perspective, Eager Haskell is simply another implementation of Haskell with the same clean equational semantics. Iteration can be expressed using tail recursion, without the need to resort to program annotations. Under hybrid evaluation, computations are ordinarily executed in program order just as in a strict functional language. When particular stack, heap, or time bounds are exceeded, suspensions are generated for all outstanding computations. These suspensions are re-started in a demand-driven fashion from the root. I'm presently working hard on making a production-quality version of the Eager Haskell compiler. If you have any questions about Eager Haskell, or would like to see a pre-release version of the compiler along with the programs I used as benchmarks, drop me a line. A full release of the unified pH / EH compiler is slated for mid-August. -Jan-Willem Maessen From chak@cse.unsw.edu.au Fri May 31 02:27:00 2002 From: chak@cse.unsw.edu.au (Manuel M. T. Chakravarty) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:27:00 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020531112700B.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> "Don Syme" wrote, > And getting top-notch performance is obviously always a huge challenge > for Haskell, and you can't play some common implementation tricks when > compiling to IL. But the only truly serious complications added by .NET > itself are (a) the general problem of Haskell interop with imperative > libraries, requiring you to reach for monads quite often (or to wrap the > libraries yourself) [..] > IMHO problem (a) will always be the thing that stops Haskell becoming > very very big. But then being non-imperative it's also its main selling > point... So, you are saying that Haskell's problem with .NET is that it is not imperative, but at the same time you don't want to resort to Haskell's imperative sublanguage (the IO monad). I don't quite understand this. Personally, I find[1] Haskell to be very pleasant for imperative programming. In fact, I agree with SPJ, who wrote[2] (slightly provocatively), Haskell is the world's finest imperative programming language. Cheers, Manuel [1] After having written piles of low-level imperative code in Haskell. [2] In ``Tackling the Awkward Squad'' From chak@cse.unsw.edu.au Fri May 31 01:54:10 2002 From: chak@cse.unsw.edu.au (Manuel M. T. Chakravarty) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:54:10 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <20020531105410E.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> "D. Tweed" wrote, > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Don Syme wrote: > > > going to provide. Given the general complexity of GHC, the longish > > compile times and the reliance of the GHC library implementation on C > > and C libraries in so many places I decided to implement a simpler > > language from scratch. I like the idea that a .NET compiler should be > > under 10K lines of code if at all possible, as is the case for F#. > > Idle curiosity: which aspects of the Haskell language are the ones that > make it complicated -- e.g., long-time stuff like lazy evaluation, > typeclasses & inferrence, etc or newer stuff like functional dependencies, > etc or something else entirely -- and do they only make it complicated in > the context of the .NET architecture or in any implementation? (I'm just > interested in that there's little chance of Haskell becoming more > widespread if it's daunting enough to dissuade implementors.) I think, the probelm is .NET, not Haskell. .NET just doesn't deliver on its promise (= marketing hype) of language neutrality. The problem is that .NET is language neutral only as long as all languages are sufficiently close to C#. Not just Haskell, but widely used languages like C++ run into this problem, too (see .NET's Managed C++). Cheers, Manuel From andrew@bromage.org Fri May 31 05:54:34 2002 From: andrew@bromage.org (Andrew J Bromage) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:54:34 +1000 Subject: layout rule infelicity In-Reply-To: <200205301110.NAA11144@isun11.informatik.uni-leipzig.de> References: <200205300946.CAA27078@mail4.halcyon.com> <200205301110.NAA11144@isun11.informatik.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <20020531045434.GA32361@smtp.alicorna.com> G'day all. On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 01:10:03PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote: > Python has it as well (they stole it from Haskell?) Python's layout rule looks more like Occam's than Haskell's, to my eyes. Aside: Was Occam the first language of the post-punched-card era to use layout as syntax? > while we're at it - what's the deal with type inference? > > sometimes I think it is *really bad* language design > if the program may contain untyped declarations of identifiers. Presumably you're not suggesting requiring type declarations in every pattern match too? I think it's something to do with where you draw the line. You could theoretically require type declarations: - Nowhere, unless the type inference mechanism can't cope with it. - Module interfaces. - Top-level declarations. - "where" clauses too. - "let" - Everywhere that a variable could be defined, including case-expressions, list comprehension generators and lambdas. - Every subexpression. I personally think it's wrong not to require explicit type declarations for everything exported from a module for engineering reasons. Sane separate compilation is important, IMO. Cheers, Andrew Bromage From avv@quasar.ipa.nw.ru Fri May 31 05:55:49 2002 From: avv@quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:55:49 -0700 Subject: layout rule infelicity References: <200205300946.CAA27078@mail4.halcyon.com> <200205301110.NAA11144@isun11.informatik.uni-leipzig.de> <20020531045434.GA32361@smtp.alicorna.com> Message-ID: <3CF70255.814AFF17@quasar.ipa.nw.ru> Hi All, Andrew J Bromage wrote: > > G'day all. > > On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 01:10:03PM +0200, Johannes Waldmann wrote: > > > Python has it as well (they stole it from Haskell?) > > Python's layout rule looks more like Occam's than Haskell's, to my eyes. > > Aside: Was Occam the first language of the post-punched-card era to use > layout as syntax? I fuzzily recall that SICStus Prolog silently tolerated omissions of commas and dots, allowing for: p(X) :- g(X,Y) h(Y) p(X) g(Y,Z) :- ... But Haskell already existed at this point. Alexander From syhua3000@9dns.net Fri May 31 09:48:20 2002 From: syhua3000@9dns.net (syhua3000) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 04:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: �𾴵��Ͽͻ�� Message-ID: <20020531084820.92A38421F21@www.haskell.org> �𾴵��Ͽͻ�� ã� ��(www.9dns.net)Ϊ�˴�л��Լ��ͻ��˾��֧�ֺ��Σ��ٴ��¾ɷ��ܣ��վ�ռ��졢�� ȶ��ȫ��ͬʱ��ǻ��˲�Ʒ �۸��ܸ��ʵķ��񡣣��˾��վ��ȫ�¸İ棺www.9dns.net�� 200M HTML�ռ�+1��۸�150Ԫ/�� 100M�ռ�(֧��ASP)+100M��ҵ�ʾ�+20M ACCESS��ݿ�+1�� 288Ԫ/�� 200M�ռ�(֧��ASP)+200M��ҵ�ʾ�+30M Access��ݿ�+1�� 338Ԫ/�� ֻ��ۼ۸񡣻�ӭѡ��Ҳ��ӭ��Ϊ��ǵĴ��! ��ǻ��и��Żݼ۸�� http://www.9dns.net �� 缼��޹�˾ --------------------------------------------------------------- �е�Ⱥ��ʼ�,��ר��(http://www.21cmm.com) ��CMM��У(http://www.21cmm.com)��Ŀ��ר�� From ketil@ii.uib.no Fri May 31 10:13:31 2002 From: ketil@ii.uib.no (Ketil Z. Malde) Date: 31 May 2002 11:13:31 +0200 Subject: layout rule infelicity In-Reply-To: <16431.1022771957@cl.cam.ac.uk> References: <16431.1022771957@cl.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Jon Fairbairn writes: > Why "-f" anyway? It took me ages to work out what > "-fallow-overlapping-instances" meant -- I wondered how > "fallow" could apply to overlapping instances. I suppose it's a GCCism, where options starting with -f specifiy *f*lags. (Which doesn't seem to apply to GHC, unless there's a -fno-allow... (of -fdont-allow...?)) -kzm -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants From tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk Fri May 31 10:35:18 2002 From: tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk (D. Tweed) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:35:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: <20020531105410E.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 May 2002, Manuel M. T. Chakravarty wrote: > I think, the probelm is .NET, not Haskell. .NET just > doesn't deliver on its promise (= marketing hype) of > language neutrality. The problem is that .NET is language > neutral only as long as all languages are sufficiently close > to C#. Not just Haskell, but widely used languages like C++ > run into this problem, too (see .NET's Managed C++). That may (or may not) be the case; I don't know. I was more wondering about `what really makes it so daunting for some working at a Microsoft (and who thus has more knowledge available about .NET than external people) to implement a Haskell for .NET, especially given the existance of F#?' One of the thoughts behind this was the knowledge that it's just the two Simons' at Microsoft Cambridge now maintaining/developing GHC; _if it were possible_ (and I'll quite concede it may not be) to leverage work on .NET for other purposes (particularly if .NET actually fulfills one of its `promises' to be OS neutral) to decrease the amount of work to keep one of the two Haskell remaining compilers (GHC, NHC) viable and up-to-date. ___cheers,_dave_________________________________________________________ www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~tweed/ | `It's no good going home to practise email:tweed@cs.bris.ac.uk | a Special Outdoor Song which Has To Be work tel:(0117) 954-5250 | Sung In The Snow' -- Winnie the Pooh From chak@cse.unsw.edu.au Fri May 31 12:05:47 2002 From: chak@cse.unsw.edu.au (Manuel M. T. Chakravarty) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:05:47 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: References: <20020531105410E.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: <20020531210547V.chak@cse.unsw.edu.au> "D. Tweed" wrote, > One of the thoughts behind this was the knowledge that it's just the two > Simons' at Microsoft Cambridge now maintaining/developing GHC; _if it were > possible_ (and I'll quite concede it may not be) to leverage work on .NET > for other purposes (particularly if .NET actually fulfills one of its > `promises' to be OS neutral) to decrease the amount of work to keep one of > the two Haskell remaining compilers (GHC, NHC) viable and up-to-date. As I see it, .NET is just generating more work. I seriously doubt that the efficiency of a .NETed Haskell would be anywhere close to what GHC delivers today. This is judging from the various attempts to compile Haskell to JVM (sure there are some differences between JVM and .NET, but I am pretty sceptical that this will significantly close the gap). What we need is some seriously new technology. See http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/project/poc/ for some ideas. Cheers Manuel From rjljr2@yahoo.com Fri May 31 12:14:34 2002 From: rjljr2@yahoo.com (Ronald Legere) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 04:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020531111434.10708.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> I wonder if ghc is the right place to start for H#/haskell.net / whatever? GHC is a (wonderfully) complex beast... it seems to have every feature anyone ever thought to add to haskell (esp in terms of the type system). Maybe one should start with haskell98 + ffi or whatever you need to add to get .net interop? Would that be easier? The problem is that ghc (seems) to be a research language aimed at playing with all kinds of possible type systems and such (which I am not saying is a bad thing..). Of course, I dont really know to much about how ghc is implemented... maybe the bits that do the fancy stuff is easy :) Cheers! Ron Haskell Fan. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From simonpj@microsoft.com Fri May 31 15:31:01 2002 From: simonpj@microsoft.com (Simon Peyton-Jones) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:31:01 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FF2@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> | Idle curiosity: which aspects of the Haskell language are the=20 | ones that make it complicated -- e.g., long-time stuff like=20 | lazy evaluation, typeclasses & inferrence, etc or newer stuff=20 | like functional dependencies, etc or something else entirely=20 | -- and do they only make it complicated in the context of the=20 | .NET architecture or in any implementation? General remarks about targetting .NET from GHC. * There is no reason in principle why one can't write a back end for GHC to generate .NET IL. =20 * Generating *verifiable* IL is noticeably harder: you have to=20 take much more care; to deal with parametric polymorphism you need Generic IL, which isn't "out" yet; and even then, higher kinded type variables are a serious problem. Being verifiable almost=20 certainly requires some runtime checked type casts, which hurt performance -- and reducing them to a minimum complicates the compiler. * My conclusion: best plan is to generate unverifiable IL, and run it unverified. Situation is then just like an existing code generator: you have to trust the compiler. But it's fast and it's much simpler. * The resulting code will still run quite a bit slower than GHC-complied code. So why would anyone want to use it? Presumably, to get access to the .NET libraries. So that has to be very convenient. Tools are needed to read .NET library meta-data and generate impedence matching glue to make them easily callable from Haskell. Haskell needs some new 'foreign import' stuff to make it easy to call the libraries. There's a big design space here about how much to extend Haskell to make calling .NET convenient. * GHC supports concurrency, exceptions, weak pointers, foreign calls, etc, etc. All these need to be mapped onto .NET. Some might not fit well; for example, Concurrent Haskell assumes extremely lightweight concurrency, whereas .NET threads are OS threads; and asynchronous exceptions might be tricky too. * GHC comes with a large collection of libraries of its own. These need to be still available in the .NET version, so the .NET implementation of GHC needs to be pretty fully-featured (because the libraries use a lot of features). What all this means is that GHC.NET is a lot more than just a code generator. That is, I think, what Don meant when he said that GHC is complicated. (In our defence, it is the very fact that GHC is a rich system that makes it useful. Its complexity is not gratuitous.) =20 Part of my reason for writing this is to encourage anyone out there to take up the challenge. There's nothing too difficult -- it's "just work". Simon and I don't have immediate plans to do anything about this, but we'd be delighted if someone else did. Congratulations to Sigbjorn to doing a great job with Hugs. =20 Simon From fjh@cs.mu.oz.au Fri May 31 15:56:24 2002 From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:56:24 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FF2@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>; from simonpj@microsoft.com on Fri, May 31, 2002 at 07:31:01AM -0700 References: <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FF2@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20020601005623.A11709@hg.cs.mu.oz.au> On 31-May-2002, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote: > > General remarks about targetting .NET from GHC. > > * There is no reason in principle why one can't write a back end > for GHC to generate .NET IL. > > * Generating *verifiable* IL is noticeably harder: you have to > take much more care; to deal with parametric polymorphism you > need Generic IL, which isn't "out" yet; You don't _need_ Generic IL. You can deal with parametric polymorphism by translating polymorphic types to "System.Object". > and even then, higher kinded type variables are a serious problem. I think System.Object helps here too. > Being verifiable almost > certainly requires some runtime checked type casts, which hurt > performance -- and reducing them to a minimum complicates the > compiler. It's certainly true that being verifiable is likely to cost some performance. But I don't think it would be difficult to implement. For the Mercury compiler's .Net back-end, there's a --verifiable option which controls whether the generated IL code is verifiable or not. -- Fergus Henderson | "I have always known that the pursuit The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit" WWW: | -- the last words of T. S. Garp. From dsyme@microsoft.com Fri May 31 16:05:18 2002 From: dsyme@microsoft.com (Don Syme) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:05:18 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: > GHC supports concurrency, exceptions, weak pointers, foreign calls, > etc, etc. All these need to be mapped onto .NET. ... GHC comes=20 > with a large collection of libraries of its own. These need to be=20 > still available in the .NET version. I don't really agree with these points. If someone tried to support all of this they'd be unlikely to appear out the other end of the swamp. Having actually tried both ways myself, I'd suggest that GHC is simply not the right starting point for a Haskell.NET compiler. Much better to start a fresh compiler, essentially from scratch, with a suitable selection of optimizations, language extensions, library features and interop extensions given the platform and kind of programming you're aiming to support. If you look at history successful compiler projects do not tend to some out of attempts to graft large code bases for alternative purposes (unless you've got loads of resources to throw at the problem). Cheers, Don -----Original Message----- From: Simon Peyton-Jones [mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com]=20 Sent: 31 May 2002 15:31 To: Don Syme; D. Tweed Cc: Paul Hudak; haskell Subject: RE: [Fwd: F#] | Idle curiosity: which aspects of the Haskell language are the=20 | ones that make it complicated -- e.g., long-time stuff like=20 | lazy evaluation, typeclasses & inferrence, etc or newer stuff=20 | like functional dependencies, etc or something else entirely=20 | -- and do they only make it complicated in the context of the=20 | .NET architecture or in any implementation? General remarks about targetting .NET from GHC. * There is no reason in principle why one can't write a back end for GHC to generate .NET IL. =20 * Generating *verifiable* IL is noticeably harder: you have to=20 take much more care; to deal with parametric polymorphism you need Generic IL, which isn't "out" yet; and even then, higher kinded type variables are a serious problem. Being verifiable almost=20 certainly requires some runtime checked type casts, which hurt performance -- and reducing them to a minimum complicates the compiler. * My conclusion: best plan is to generate unverifiable IL, and run it unverified. Situation is then just like an existing code generator: you have to trust the compiler. But it's fast and it's much simpler. * The resulting code will still run quite a bit slower than GHC-complied code. So why would anyone want to use it? Presumably, to get access to the .NET libraries. So that has to be very convenient. Tools are needed to read .NET library meta-data and generate impedence matching glue to make them easily callable from Haskell. Haskell needs some new 'foreign import' stuff to make it easy to call the libraries. There's a big design space here about how much to extend Haskell to make calling .NET convenient. * GHC supports concurrency, exceptions, weak pointers, foreign calls, etc, etc. All these need to be mapped onto .NET. Some might not fit well; for example, Concurrent Haskell assumes extremely lightweight concurrency, whereas .NET threads are OS threads; and asynchronous exceptions might be tricky too. * GHC comes with a large collection of libraries of its own. These need to be still available in the .NET version, so the .NET implementation of GHC needs to be pretty fully-featured (because the libraries use a lot of features). What all this means is that GHC.NET is a lot more than just a code generator. That is, I think, what Don meant when he said that GHC is complicated. (In our defence, it is the very fact that GHC is a rich system that makes it useful. Its complexity is not gratuitous.) =20 Part of my reason for writing this is to encourage anyone out there to take up the challenge. There's nothing too difficult -- it's "just work". Simon and I don't have immediate plans to do anything about this, but we'd be delighted if someone else did. Congratulations to Sigbjorn to doing a great job with Hugs. =20 Simon _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell From max630@mail.ru Fri May 31 17:45:26 2002 From: max630@mail.ru (Max Kirillov) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:45:26 +0700 Subject: readFloat In-Reply-To: <1022706226.1490.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from wolfgang@jeltsch.net on Wed, May 29, 2002 at 11:10:44PM +0200 References: <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FC4@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft. <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FC4@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft. <1022706226.1490.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20020531234526.A2752@max.home> So why one might need it? I've never used Rational, but, if asked, I would say that they are for exact representation of numbers (some symbolic calcs). On the other side, 'real' dotted numbers always represent some real values with finite accuracy. That's look like a bad idea to me to call Rational numbers 'real' and type (print) them as a decimal fraction (*). Further, one would like to treat Rational as not just a decimal fraction, but, for example, decimal fraction with a period -- 0.12(3). I think that (readFloat :: ReadS Rational) must not be in Reported libs. I anybody wants, let him declare > instance RealFloat Rational, taking all the responsibility. Muth better would be provide (maybe where is) a function > realToFrac :: RealFloat a, RealFrac b => a -> a -> b, > realToFrac x err = ... which would provide the shortest fractional approximation to a given 'real' number. Max. (*) Some school teachers like children to write solution of (4*x-3=0) as 0.75. I highly disagree with it. 3/4 is 3/4, but "0.75" is 0.75+-0.005 :) On Tuesday, 2002-05-28, 18:57, CEST Simon Peyton-Jones wrote: > Folks > > I'm back to tidying up the Haskell Report. > > In the Numeric library, there is the useful function > > readFloat :: RealFloat a => ReadS a > > But you can't use it for reading rationals, because Rational > isn't in RealFloat! > > This is a Royal Pain, and entirely unnecessary. In fact, > readFloat uses only operations from the RealFrac class, > so it could equally well have type > > readFloat :: RealFrac a => ReadS a > > I'm strongly inclined to make this change. It breaks no > programs, and it fixes a real bug i.e. there is no way to > read a "103" as a Rational. > > Simon From herrmann@fmi.uni-passau.de Fri May 31 18:23:45 2002 From: herrmann@fmi.uni-passau.de (Ch. A. Herrmann) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:23:45 +0200 Subject: readFloat In-Reply-To: <20020531234526.A2752@max.home> References: <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FC4@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft. <1113DDB24D4A2841951BFDF86665EE1901041FC4@RED-MSG-10.redmond.corp.microsoft. <1022706226.1490.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20020531234526.A2752@max.home> Message-ID: <15607.45473.463118.583141@wagner.fmi.uni-passau.de> Hi Haskellers, >>>>> "Max" == Max Kirillov writes: Max> So why one might need it? I've never used Rational, but, if Max> asked, I would say that they are for exact representation of Max> numbers (some symbolic calcs). that's true. I'm using rationals intensively since a couple of years for this purpose and I'd like that they remain as exact as they are. Max> On the other side, 'real' dotted Max> numbers always represent some real values with finite Max> accuracy. I'm not sure if that always is the case, but there is the danger of confusion and this should be enough reason to be careful. Max> That's look like a bad idea to me to call Rational Max> numbers 'real' and type (print) them as a decimal fraction (*). Especially converting rationals to a string and back should always be the identity. It would be better to print rationals in the form numerator % denominator and read them in the same form. Surely, it's good to have flexibility in a programming language; but at critical points --and conversions between floating points (even if represented as strings) and rationals are such a point-- a programming language should demand explicit conversion. Cheers -- Christoph From C.Reinke@ukc.ac.uk Fri May 31 19:01:42 2002 From: C.Reinke@ukc.ac.uk (C.Reinke) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:01:42 +0100 Subject: Lists representations (was: What does FP do well? (was ...)) In-Reply-To: Message from Jerzy Karczmarczuk of "Fri, 17 May 2002 10:00:41 +0200." <3CE4B8A9.CB2A26B@info.unicaen.fr> Message-ID: Long away and far ago (or something like that;), there was a discussion on Lists implemented as arrays rather than linked structures, during which Jerzy Karczmarczuk commented: > What bothers me quite strongly is the algorithmic side of operations > upon such objects. > > Typical iterations map- (or zip-) style: do something with the head, pass > recursively to the tail, would demand "intelligent" arrays, with the indexing > header detached from the bulk data itself. The "consumed" part could not be > garbage collected. In a lazy language this might possibly produce a considerable > amount of rubbish which otherwise would be destroyed quite fast. The > concatenation of (parts of) such lists might also have very bad behaviour. > > Can you calm my anxiety? > > Jerzy Karczmarczuk The reason I wanted to reply is that I can offer one data point on this. An even longer time ago, there were the various reduction systems developed in Kiel, implementing the Kiel Reduction Language KiR, a variant of Berkling's reduction languages (the Berkling pointed to in Backus' Turing Award Lecture). KiR lacked lots of useful features Haskell has, and Haskell's implementations still lack lots of useful features KiR's had. I dearly miss those features, but that is not the topic here (I don't know whether any of the systems still install or even run, but see the Manual at http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~base/ for more info). The topic here was list representations. KiR's implementations moved from interpreted graph-reduction over compiled graph-reduction with a code interpreter to compiled graph-reduction with compilation via C, all more or less with the same high-level front end. All of these represented lists as vectors (KiR was dynamically and implicitly typed, btw), and the memory was divided into an area for fixed-size descriptors pointing to each other or into the second area, the heap, for variable-sized data blocks. The descriptor area was reference-counted and simply reused free space (most KiR variants were call-by-value), the other area needed memory compactification when space grew fragmented. A list's elements (or pointers to their descriptors) went into a contiguous block in the heap, and the descriptors made it possible to share subsequences of elements between different lists (descriptors were large enough to hold a pointer to the start of the sequence and its length). Quite as Jerzy suspected. Supported operations included both array and list operations, append required the allocation of a new heap block and copying of *both* lists, but was provided as a primitive (the standard approach for systems that started out as interpreters: a good mix of efficient primitives and interpreted user defined constructs). As others have pointed out, this looks rather inefficient, especially for longer lists, so when we set out to make measurements for a JFP paper [1], comparing with the likes of ghc, we expected to be beaten, but hoped to be not too far away, at least with the latest via-C implementation.. Benchmarks are always difficult, but especially so between so different languages: in KiR, we could easily and correctly execute programs that in Haskell, either wouldn't even compile, or wouldn't terminate, or wouldn't show any result (with similar problems the other way round). And after adapting to the common subset of algorithms, a translation to Haskell might mean that a complex program execution might return immediately, as the compiler and runtime system lazily determined that none of it was needed for the program output (compiled Haskell programs report almost no reduction results, only explicit program output, or show-able results). With all these preliminaries and caveats, and the standard disclaimer that all benchmarks are useless, but interesting, the relevant benchmark is the infamous "pretty quicksort" for some 4000 elements (qusort in the paper - lots of finite lists, traversals, fragments and appends, just like the typical Haskell program written without any concern for efficiency; Haskell programs concerned with efficiency tend to look rather different). To our astonishment, even the code interpreting implementation (which should otherwise be in the ballpark of Hugs) outperformed ghc, hbc, and Clean on this example (call-by-value also played a role: compiled sml was in the same area as compiled KiR, but both only slightly faster than code-interpreted KiR, so data representation and primitives seemed to play the main role). This prompted us to include Augustsson's sanitized variant of quicksort (qusortbin in the paper - from the hbc libs) as well, which gave the results everyone expected (it substantially modifies the algorithm to a profile better supported by the current list representation, e.g., no appends). [and before anyone accuses me of advocating functional quicksort: the naive quicksort is useless, and even the real one isn't the best choice in many cases;-] But the moral for the current discussion: a more intelligent list representation could have substantially more benefits for the average Haskell program than any compiler optimization twiddling, and I'd really like to see someone (PhD student?) investigating that topic seriously, as the answers are unlikely to be obvious. The representation chosen in the reduction systems could be a first hint, but as Jerzy points out, things may be more complicated in the context of Haskell. For comparison, Haskell array performance was somewhere between non-existent and terrible in those days (another clear win for both the compiled and the interpreted reduction systems) and has only recently improved somewhat. That needs to continue and, please, someone do the same for lists! Just my old 2 Pfennige (former currency;-), Claus [1] D. Gaertner, W. Kluge: pi-RED+: An Interactive Compiling Graph Reduction System for an Applied Lambda-Calculus Journal of Functional Programming, 6 (5), 1996. From reid@cs.utah.edu Fri May 31 19:55:19 2002 From: reid@cs.utah.edu (Alastair Reid) Date: 31 May 2002 19:55:19 +0100 Subject: Lists representations (was: What does FP do well? (was ...)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [copied to Zhong Shao and Cordelia Hall] > [snip - full text included at end] > > But the moral for the current discussion: a more intelligent list > representation could have substantially more benefits for the > average Haskell program than any compiler optimization twiddling, > and I'd really like to see someone (PhD student?) investigating that > topic seriously, as the answers are unlikely to be obvious. > > [snip] I vaguely remember Zhong Shao (Yale) and Cordelia Hall (Glasgow?) investigating list representations for ML and Haskell respectively. If I recall correctly (and I'm not sure I do), Zhong and Cordy were both looking at representations which merged adjacent Cons cells (roughly) like so: data List a = Nil | Cons1 a (List a) | Cons2 a a (List a) | Cons4 a a a a (List a) [This is very, very rough (if not downright wrong) - partly because I last saw this about 8 years ago and partly because I'm summarizing two different pieces of work.] Zhong's work [1] was in the context of a strict language (SML) which meant that you can know how long a list is as you are building it so you can use the Cons4 cells a lot. Cordy's work [2] was in the context of a lazy language (Haskell) which meant that you usually don't know the length of a list (if it is even finite) as you are building it. This requires a bit of cunningness to overcome. IIRC, the key part of that cunningness was that Cordy does the most interesting stuff near the tail of the list while Zhong does the most interesting things near the head of the list. Both implemented this partly by changing the representation and partly by changing the code their compiler generated. I think both used type inference as part of their compiler modification. -- Alastair Reid reid@cs.utah.edu http://www.cs.utah.edu/~reid/ [1] Shao, Zhong; Reppy, John H.; Appel, Andrew "Unrolling Lists" ACM Conference on Lisp and and Functional Programming, New York, June 1994. ACM Press. http://flint.cs.yale.edu/flint/publications/listrep.pdf [2] Hall, Cordelia V. "Using Hindley-Milner Type Inference to Optimise List Representation" ACM Conference on Lisp and Functional Programming, New York, June 1994. ACM Press. (not available online??) > Long away and far ago (or something like that;), there was a > discussion on Lists implemented as arrays rather than linked > structures, during which Jerzy Karczmarczuk commented: > > > What bothers me quite strongly is the algorithmic side of operations > > upon such objects. > > > > Typical iterations map- (or zip-) style: do something with the head, pass > > recursively to the tail, would demand "intelligent" arrays, with the indexing > > header detached from the bulk data itself. The "consumed" part could not be > > garbage collected. In a lazy language this might possibly produce a considerable > > amount of rubbish which otherwise would be destroyed quite fast. The > > concatenation of (parts of) such lists might also have very bad behaviour. > > > > Can you calm my anxiety? > > > > Jerzy Karczmarczuk > > The reason I wanted to reply is that I can offer one data point on > this. An even longer time ago, there were the various reduction > systems developed in Kiel, implementing the Kiel Reduction Language > KiR, a variant of Berkling's reduction languages (the Berkling > pointed to in Backus' Turing Award Lecture). KiR lacked lots of > useful features Haskell has, and Haskell's implementations still > lack lots of useful features KiR's had. I dearly miss those > features, but that is not the topic here (I don't know whether any > of the systems still install or even run, but see the Manual at > http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~base/ for more info). > > The topic here was list representations. KiR's implementations moved > from interpreted graph-reduction over compiled graph-reduction with > a code interpreter to compiled graph-reduction with compilation via > C, all more or less with the same high-level front end. All of these > represented lists as vectors (KiR was dynamically and implicitly > typed, btw), and the memory was divided into an area for fixed-size > descriptors pointing to each other or into the second area, the > heap, for variable-sized data blocks. The descriptor area was > reference-counted and simply reused free space (most KiR variants > were call-by-value), the other area needed memory compactification > when space grew fragmented. > > A list's elements (or pointers to their descriptors) went into a > contiguous block in the heap, and the descriptors made it possible > to share subsequences of elements between different lists > (descriptors were large enough to hold a pointer to the start of the > sequence and its length). Quite as Jerzy suspected. Supported > operations included both array and list operations, append required > the allocation of a new heap block and copying of *both* lists, but > was provided as a primitive (the standard approach for systems that > started out as interpreters: a good mix of efficient primitives and > interpreted user defined constructs). > > As others have pointed out, this looks rather inefficient, > especially for longer lists, so when we set out to make measurements > for a JFP paper [1], comparing with the likes of ghc, we expected to > be beaten, but hoped to be not too far away, at least with the > latest via-C implementation.. > > Benchmarks are always difficult, but especially so between so > different languages: in KiR, we could easily and correctly execute > programs that in Haskell, either wouldn't even compile, or wouldn't > terminate, or wouldn't show any result (with similar problems the > other way round). And after adapting to the common subset of > algorithms, a translation to Haskell might mean that a complex > program execution might return immediately, as the compiler and > runtime system lazily determined that none of it was needed for the > program output (compiled Haskell programs report almost no reduction > results, only explicit program output, or show-able results). > > With all these preliminaries and caveats, and the standard > disclaimer that all benchmarks are useless, but interesting, the > relevant benchmark is the infamous "pretty quicksort" for some 4000 > elements (qusort in the paper - lots of finite lists, traversals, > fragments and appends, just like the typical Haskell program written > without any concern for efficiency; Haskell programs concerned with > efficiency tend to look rather different). > > To our astonishment, even the code interpreting implementation > (which should otherwise be in the ballpark of Hugs) outperformed > ghc, hbc, and Clean on this example (call-by-value also played a > role: compiled sml was in the same area as compiled KiR, but both > only slightly faster than code-interpreted KiR, so data representation > and primitives seemed to play the main role). This prompted us to > include Augustsson's sanitized variant of quicksort (qusortbin in > the paper - from the hbc libs) as well, which gave the results > everyone expected (it substantially modifies the algorithm to a > profile better supported by the current list representation, e.g., > no appends). [and before anyone accuses me of advocating functional > quicksort: the naive quicksort is useless, and even the real one > isn't the best choice in many cases;-] > > But the moral for the current discussion: a more intelligent list > representation could have substantially more benefits for the > average Haskell program than any compiler optimization twiddling, > and I'd really like to see someone (PhD student?) investigating that > topic seriously, as the answers are unlikely to be obvious. > > The representation chosen in the reduction systems could be a first > hint, but as Jerzy points out, things may be more complicated in the > context of Haskell. For comparison, Haskell array performance was > somewhere between non-existent and terrible in those days (another > clear win for both the compiled and the interpreted reduction > systems) and has only recently improved somewhat. That needs to > continue and, please, someone do the same for lists! > > Just my old 2 Pfennige (former currency;-), > Claus > > [1] D. Gaertner, W. Kluge: pi-RED+: An Interactive Compiling Graph > Reduction System for an Applied Lambda-Calculus > Journal of Functional Programming, 6 (5), 1996. From dsyme@microsoft.com Fri May 31 20:48:16 2002 From: dsyme@microsoft.com (Don Syme) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: F#] Message-ID: SGkgTWFudWVsLA0KIA0KT25lIHBvaW50IGlzIHRoYXQgaW4gdGhlIGFic2VuY2Ugb2YgZXh0ZW5z aXZlIHB1cml0eSBhbm5vdGF0aW9ucyB0byBpbXBlcmF0aXZlIGxpYnJhcmllcyB5b3Ugd2lsbCBu ZWVkIHRvIHVzZSBtb25hZHMgZm9yIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBzaG91bGRuJ3QgbmVlZCB0aGVt LiAgSGF2aW5nIHRvIGFkZCB0aGUgYW5ub3RhdGlvbnMgY2VydGFpbmx5IGNvdW50cyBhcyBhIGNv bXBsaWNhdGlvbiBpbiBjb21wYXJpc29uIHRvIHdoYXQgbWFueSBvdGhlciBsYW5ndWFnZXMgaGF2 ZSB0byBkbyBvbiAuTkVULiAgDQogDQpBcyBmb3IgbW9uYWRzLCB0aGlzIGlzIGhhcmRseSB0aGUg cGxhY2UgdG8gZ28gaW50byBhbiBhcmd1bWVudCBhYm91dCB0aGVpciByZWxhdGl2ZSBtZXJpdHMg cmUuIGFsbCB0aG9zZSBzbGlnaHRseSBtb3JlIHdpZGVzcHJlYWQgYXBwcm9hY2hlcyB0byBpbXBl cmF0aXZlIHByb2dyYW1taW5nLiAgSWYgeW91IHRoaW5rIGRyaXZpbmcgaW1wZXJhdGl2ZSBsaWJy YXJpZXMgdXNpbmcgbW9uYWRzIHdpbGwgYmUgc28gZ3JlYXQgdGhlbiBhIEhhc2tlbGwuTkVUIHdv dWxkIGNlcnRhaW5seSBiZSBhIHBlcmZlY3QgcGxhY2UgdG8gdHJ5IG91dCB0aGF0IHRoZW9yeS4N CiANCkRvbg0KIA0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogTWFudWVs IE0uIFQuIENoYWtyYXZhcnR5IFttYWlsdG86Y2hha0Bjc2UudW5zdy5lZHUuYXVdIA0KCVNlbnQ6 IEZyaSAzMS4wNS4yMDAyIDAzOjI3IA0KCVRvOiBEb24gU3ltZSANCglDYzogdHdlZWRAY3MuYnJp cy5hYy51azsgcGF1bC5odWRha0B5YWxlLmVkdTsgaGFza2VsbEBoYXNrZWxsLm9yZyANCglTdWJq ZWN0OiBSRTogW0Z3ZDogRiNdDQoJDQoJDQoNCgkiRG9uIFN5bWUiIDxkc3ltZUBtaWNyb3NvZnQu Y29tPiB3cm90ZSwNCgkNCgk+IEFuZCBnZXR0aW5nIHRvcC1ub3RjaCBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBpcyBv YnZpb3VzbHkgYWx3YXlzIGEgaHVnZSBjaGFsbGVuZ2UNCgk+IGZvciBIYXNrZWxsLCBhbmQgeW91 IGNhbid0IHBsYXkgc29tZSBjb21tb24gaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gdHJpY2tzIHdoZW4NCgk+IGNv bXBpbGluZyB0byBJTC4gIEJ1dCB0aGUgb25seSB0cnVseSBzZXJpb3VzIGNvbXBsaWNhdGlvbnMg YWRkZWQgYnkgLk5FVA0KCT4gaXRzZWxmIGFyZSAoYSkgdGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgcHJvYmxlbSBvZiBI YXNrZWxsIGludGVyb3Agd2l0aCBpbXBlcmF0aXZlDQoJPiBsaWJyYXJpZXMsIHJlcXVpcmluZyB5 b3UgdG8gcmVhY2ggZm9yIG1vbmFkcyBxdWl0ZSBvZnRlbiAob3IgdG8gd3JhcCB0aGUNCgk+IGxp YnJhcmllcyB5b3Vyc2VsZikNCglbLi5dDQoJPiBJTUhPIHByb2JsZW0gKGEpIHdpbGwgYWx3YXlz IGJlIHRoZSB0aGluZyB0aGF0IHN0b3BzIEhhc2tlbGwgYmVjb21pbmcNCgk+IHZlcnkgdmVyeSBi aWcuICBCdXQgdGhlbiBiZWluZyBub24taW1wZXJhdGl2ZSBpdCdzIGFsc28gaXRzIG1haW4gc2Vs bGluZw0KCT4gcG9pbnQuLi4NCgkNCglTbywgeW91IGFyZSBzYXlpbmcgdGhhdCBIYXNrZWxsJ3Mg cHJvYmxlbSB3aXRoIC5ORVQgaXMgdGhhdA0KCWl0IGlzIG5vdCBpbXBlcmF0aXZlLCBidXQgYXQg dGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZSB5b3UgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0bw0KCXJlc29ydCB0byBIYXNrZWxsJ3MgaW1w ZXJhdGl2ZSBzdWJsYW5ndWFnZSAodGhlIElPIG1vbmFkKS4NCglJIGRvbid0IHF1aXRlIHVuZGVy c3RhbmQgdGhpcy4NCgkNCglQZXJzb25hbGx5LCBJIGZpbmRbMV0gSGFza2VsbCB0byBiZSB2ZXJ5 IHBsZWFzYW50IGZvcg0KCWltcGVyYXRpdmUgcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcuICBJbiBmYWN0LCBJIGFncmVl IHdpdGggU1BKLCB3aG8NCgl3cm90ZVsyXSAoc2xpZ2h0bHkgcHJvdm9jYXRpdmVseSksIEhhc2tl bGwgaXMgdGhlIHdvcmxkJ3MNCglmaW5lc3QgaW1wZXJhdGl2ZSBwcm9ncmFtbWluZyBsYW5ndWFn ZS4NCgkNCglDaGVlcnMsDQoJTWFudWVsDQoJDQoJWzFdIEFmdGVyIGhhdmluZyB3cml0dGVuIHBp bGVzIG9mIGxvdy1sZXZlbCBpbXBlcmF0aXZlIGNvZGUNCgkgICAgaW4gSGFza2VsbC4NCgkNCglb Ml0gSW4gYGBUYWNrbGluZyB0aGUgQXdrd2FyZCBTcXVhZCcnDQoJDQoNCg== From pixel@mandrakesoft.com Fri May 31 22:50:16 2002 From: pixel@mandrakesoft.com (Pixel) Date: 31 May 2002 23:50:16 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: F#] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Don Syme" writes: > One point is that in the absence of extensive purity annotations to imperative > libraries you will need to use monads for operations that shouldn't need them. > Having to add the annotations certainly counts as a complication in comparison > to what many other languages have to do on .NET. am I wrong to think that would .NET had const'ness a la C++, purity annotations wouldn't be needed? hum, not really. const methods can still modify global state (but not object state)... but at least no need to annotate non-const methods :) off topic: On the subject of const'ness, I've been messing around with it. I've been quite surprised to discover that Java&C# do not have C++'s const (Java has "final" on parameters, but it is dumb) About this: http://merd.net/inoutness.html (beware, half of it is still investigations)