From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 18:47:23 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2016 11:47:23 -0700
Subject: minutes from committee meeting at ICFP
In-Reply-To: <58ED5837-B44F-4793-9605-B3ED8C346A27@cs.brynmawr.edu>
References: <D689F033-A4D7-472D-AA8D-CE513FFEE2D2@cs.brynmawr.edu>
 <9F980153-FF5A-4802-A46D-FF6AD27DF8A4@cs.brynmawr.edu>
 <878tudgtz8.fsf@ben-laptop.smart-cactus.org>
 <58ED5837-B44F-4793-9605-B3ED8C346A27@cs.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuo36Tx0RQm0VfnZ-EoCoFYY=hmAovjw_vK65fub8uvJKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I just got back to the US, and have started uploading videos in earnest.
Hopefully, I'll get to the Haskell Symposium pretty soon, and the whole
discussion was recorded so that everyone can listen to it.   I started
taking notes at the beginning of the discussion, but then got distracted,
so my notes didn't end up terribly useful.

-Iavor





On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Richard Eisenberg <rae at cs.brynmawr.edu>
wrote:

> I recall that Iavor took notes from the podium. Iavor?
>
> > On Sep 27, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Ben Gamari <ben at smart-cactus.org> wrote:
> >
> > Richard Eisenberg <rae at cs.brynmawr.edu> writes:
> >
> >> Below are the minutes from last week’s in-person meeting at ICFP among
> >> the attending members of the Haskell Prime committee. The conversation
> >> moved swiftly, and I’ve done my best at capturing the essence of
> >> attendees’ comments. The attendees have had a week to consider these
> >> notes with no suggestions submitted; I thus consider these notes
> >> ratified.
> >>
> > Did anyone take notes from Iavor's Status of Haskell discussion during
> > the Symposium? There were a few points brought up there that shouldn't
> > be forgotten.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > - Ben
> >
>
>
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From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 23:27:54 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:27:54 -0700
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
detailed step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on
GitHub.  The instructions are now available here:

 https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-step-instructions.md

Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
misunderstood something about the process.

Cheers,
-Iavor
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From dluposchainsky at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:40:39 2016
From: dluposchainsky at googlemail.com (David Luposchainsky)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:40:39 +0200
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ee435717-3228-a697-f2ad-e57b189fcce3@gmail.com>

On 04.10.2016 01:27, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a detailed
> step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on GitHub.  The
> instructions are now available here:
> 
>  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-step-instructions.md
> 
> Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I misunderstood
> something about the process.

The target audience for this document is someone who is unfamiliar with Git and
Github, which we should make clear at the beginning. As an experienced user, it
left me searching for relevant information among all those sub-lists to find out
that it really just is about opening a pull request containing a template. We
might provide a link to the document in the process section [1] of the current
README if others think this amount of detail helps lowering the barrier of entry.

One thing we should also mention somewhere is to please provide a link to the
rendered version of the proposal in the ticket, because Git diffs are in a very
reader-unfriendly format.

Greetings,
David

[1]: https://github.com/yav/rfcs/tree/instructions#proposal-process


-- 
My GPG keys: https://keybase.io/quchen

From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 17:06:43 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 10:06:43 -0700
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <ee435717-3228-a697-f2ad-e57b189fcce3@gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <ee435717-3228-a697-f2ad-e57b189fcce3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nur6MYNH4fq-Wjir+56gNPzGk9=JLOU5BAdosEsE9HNMGA@mail.gmail.com>

OK, I put a section at the top saying that, and then summarizing the
process for people who are familiar with the tools.   I also updated the
last list to say that you should add a link to the rendered version and how
to do it.





On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:40 AM, David Luposchainsky via Haskell-prime <
haskell-prime at haskell.org> wrote:

> On 04.10.2016 01:27, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> > During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
> detailed
> > step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on GitHub.  The
> > instructions are now available here:
> >
> >  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-
> step-instructions.md
> >
> > Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
> misunderstood
> > something about the process.
>
> The target audience for this document is someone who is unfamiliar with
> Git and
> Github, which we should make clear at the beginning. As an experienced
> user, it
> left me searching for relevant information among all those sub-lists to
> find out
> that it really just is about opening a pull request containing a template.
> We
> might provide a link to the document in the process section [1] of the
> current
> README if others think this amount of detail helps lowering the barrier of
> entry.
>
> One thing we should also mention somewhere is to please provide a link to
> the
> rendered version of the proposal in the ticket, because Git diffs are in a
> very
> reader-unfriendly format.
>
> Greetings,
> David
>
> [1]: https://github.com/yav/rfcs/tree/instructions#proposal-process
>
>
> --
> My GPG keys: https://keybase.io/quchen
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-prime mailing list
> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>
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From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 17:09:26 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 10:09:26 -0700
Subject: Process question
Message-ID: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Now that we've started with a few proposal, I am realizing that I have no
idea how to proceed from here.  In particular:

1. How would I request I proposal to be rejected
2. How would I request that a proposal be accepted

Ideas?

-Iavor
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From takenobu.hs at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 13:29:56 2016
From: takenobu.hs at gmail.com (Takenobu Tani)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 22:29:56 +0900
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Iavor,

Members of non prime-commitiee could send pull-request?


README.rst [1] is written as follows:

> While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
entirely new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core
Language Committee.


[1]: https://github.com/haskell/rfcs

Regards,
Takenobu


2016-10-04 8:27 GMT+09:00 Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com>:

> Hello,
>
> During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
> detailed step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on
> GitHub.  The instructions are now available here:
>
>  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-
> step-instructions.md
>
> Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
> misunderstood something about the process.
>
> Cheers,
> -Iavor
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-prime mailing list
> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>
>
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From mblazevic at stilo.com  Wed Oct  5 14:50:52 2016
From: mblazevic at stilo.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Mario_Bla=c5=beevi=c4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 10:50:52 -0400
Subject: Process question
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06322e7c-0136-9673-e5db-18c20a50b3d6@stilo.com>

On 2016-10-04 01:09 PM, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Now that we've started with a few proposal, I am realizing that I have
> no idea how to proceed from here.  In particular:
>
> 1. How would I request I proposal to be rejected
> 2. How would I request that a proposal be accepted

	I don't know if we need to fix the acceptance/rejection process so 
early on. Once a new proposal is merged in, it need not be immediately 
accepted or rejected. It could just collect comments and adjustments. I 
see no point in voting for acceptance or rejection until the time comes 
to prepare Haskell 2020.

	If my understanding of the process is correct, this raises two more 
groups of questions.

1. I assume we'd use GitHub issues to discuss and/or point flaws in a 
particular proposal?

1a. If so, it would be nice to group together all issues related to a 
paricular proposal, but GitHub issues don't come with much metadata. Do 
we prescribe some keyword that has to be specified in the subject of 
each proposal-related issue?

1b. There could be a special "Accept me" issue for each proposal used 
for tracking its status. GitHub issues can be assigned to milestones, 
such as "Accepted for Haskell2020", "Last Call for Votes", "Awaiting 
Comments", or "Work In Progress".

2. How do we prepare the actual Haskell 2020 language report? The report 
is more than a collection of disparate proposals. The Haskell 2010 
report also contains errors whose fixing shouldn't require writing up a 
whole language proposal.

2a. Would the current text of the Haskell' language report be stored in 
the same GitHub repository with the RFCs? If not, where else?

2b. Would we merge each proposal into the language report as soon as 
it's accepted? Whose responsibility would this (largely mechanical) 
process be?


From rae at cs.brynmawr.edu  Wed Oct  5 18:01:15 2016
From: rae at cs.brynmawr.edu (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 14:01:15 -0400
Subject: Process question
In-Reply-To: <06322e7c-0136-9673-e5db-18c20a50b3d6@stilo.com>
References: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <06322e7c-0136-9673-e5db-18c20a50b3d6@stilo.com>
Message-ID: <289EF0C9-C5DB-42D8-9503-770A89DD761F@cs.brynmawr.edu>

Does this GitHub feature help: https://github.com/haskell/rfcs/projects/1

After a proposal is accepted, then an individual (or small group) needs to write up the changes to the Report, which should then also go back through the larger committee.

And I’ll amplify some of Mario’s questions:

> 
> 2. How do we prepare the actual Haskell 2020 language report? The report is more than a collection of disparate proposals. The Haskell 2010 report also contains errors whose fixing shouldn't require writing up a whole language proposal.
> 
> 2a. Would the current text of the Haskell' language report be stored in the same GitHub repository with the RFCs? If not, where else?
> 
> 2b. Would we merge each proposal into the language report as soon as it's accepted? Whose responsibility would this (largely mechanical) process be?

I think we should put the Report text in this separate repo. An accepted proposal is merged into the rfcs repo -- that is, the PR is accepted. Then a new PR can eventually be made to amend the text in the report repo.

Richard

> On Oct 5, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Mario Blažević <mblazevic at stilo.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2016-10-04 01:09 PM, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Now that we've started with a few proposal, I am realizing that I have
>> no idea how to proceed from here.  In particular:
>> 
>> 1. How would I request I proposal to be rejected
>> 2. How would I request that a proposal be accepted
> 
> 	I don't know if we need to fix the acceptance/rejection process so early on. Once a new proposal is merged in, it need not be immediately accepted or rejected. It could just collect comments and adjustments. I see no point in voting for acceptance or rejection until the time comes to prepare Haskell 2020.
> 
> 	If my understanding of the process is correct, this raises two more groups of questions.
> 
> 1. I assume we'd use GitHub issues to discuss and/or point flaws in a particular proposal?
> 
> 1a. If so, it would be nice to group together all issues related to a paricular proposal, but GitHub issues don't come with much metadata. Do we prescribe some keyword that has to be specified in the subject of each proposal-related issue?
> 
> 1b. There could be a special "Accept me" issue for each proposal used for tracking its status. GitHub issues can be assigned to milestones, such as "Accepted for Haskell2020", "Last Call for Votes", "Awaiting Comments", or "Work In Progress".
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-prime mailing list
> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime


From carter.schonwald at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 21:50:49 2016
From: carter.schonwald at gmail.com (Carter Schonwald)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 17:50:49 -0400
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>

I guess the question is what is the definition of issue in that context?

Whatever the specifics, I think if you either

a) privately talk with a memeber of the committee about what you intend to
do and they are willing to "co own" / "sponsor it", and this is indicated
in the pr summary or the like
B) ask on the list about a particular proposal / pr you wish to write up
and at least 2-3 committee members explicitly respond with supportive noise
like "sure"/ "go for it" etc, then linking that thread as part of the
description of the PR  counts as support by those committee members for
that pr

(Mind you I'm making up this approach / rubric)

The intent I think of the current language in the repo is that drowning in
proposals would not be a good state of affairs, and that likewise members
of can hold each other accountable.

Anyways: what do you have in mind? :)

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Iavor,
>
> Members of non prime-commitiee could send pull-request?
>
>
> README.rst [1] is written as follows:
>
> > While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
> entirely new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core
> Language Committee.
>
>
> [1]: https://github.com/haskell/rfcs
>
> Regards,
> Takenobu
>
>
> 2016-10-04 8:27 GMT+09:00 Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','iavor.diatchki at gmail.com');>>:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
>> detailed step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on
>> GitHub.  The instructions are now available here:
>>
>>  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-step-
>> instructions.md
>>
>> Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
>> misunderstood something about the process.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Iavor
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-prime mailing list
>> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Haskell-prime at haskell.org');>
>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>>
>>
>
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From takenobu.hs at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 11:33:32 2016
From: takenobu.hs at gmail.com (Takenobu Tani)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 20:33:32 +0900
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your kind explanation.

I understood that accountability of a proposal (github PR) is very
important.
If it doesn't exist, the github proposal repo may become a collection of
"throw-out" PRs.
It's reasonable for me that only committee members can create PRs.


In my understanding from your explanation, the proposal process is the
following:

(1) pre-discussion about a particular proposal [everyone]
      * privately talk with committee members, or,
      * talk on the haskell-prime mailing list

(2) creating the new proposal on github [only committee members]
      * PR by a committee member

(3) open discussion on github [everyone]
      * conservation on the PR

For me, (1) is now clear.
If it's written somewhere, it's easy for non-committee members to
understand the total proposal process:)


Thank you for committee's great work,
Takenobu


2016-10-06 6:50 GMT+09:00 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com>:

> I guess the question is what is the definition of issue in that context?
>
> Whatever the specifics, I think if you either
>
> a) privately talk with a memeber of the committee about what you intend to
> do and they are willing to "co own" / "sponsor it", and this is indicated
> in the pr summary or the like
> B) ask on the list about a particular proposal / pr you wish to write up
> and at least 2-3 committee members explicitly respond with supportive noise
> like "sure"/ "go for it" etc, then linking that thread as part of the
> description of the PR  counts as support by those committee members for
> that pr
>
> (Mind you I'm making up this approach / rubric)
>
> The intent I think of the current language in the repo is that drowning in
> proposals would not be a good state of affairs, and that likewise members
> of can hold each other accountable.
>
> Anyways: what do you have in mind? :)
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Iavor,
>>
>> Members of non prime-commitiee could send pull-request?
>>
>>
>> README.rst [1] is written as follows:
>>
>> > While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
>> entirely new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core
>> Language Committee.
>>
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/haskell/rfcs
>>
>> Regards,
>> Takenobu
>>
>>
>> 2016-10-04 8:27 GMT+09:00 Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
>>> detailed step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on
>>> GitHub.  The instructions are now available here:
>>>
>>>  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-step-
>>> instructions.md
>>>
>>> Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
>>> misunderstood something about the process.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Iavor
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Haskell-prime mailing list
>>> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
>>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>>>
>>>
>>
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From carter.schonwald at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 14:38:30 2016
From: carter.schonwald at gmail.com (Carter Schonwald)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 10:38:30 -0400
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHYVw0z78oJTv1-urtW6=hKcGQpj6sQmCeQ8BsiU0+B-jZLe6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hrmm, I guess I shall have to do my first pr, unless anyone else thinks we
should tweet this clarification slightly? But i suppose that can be on the
pr :)

On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your kind explanation.
>
> I understood that accountability of a proposal (github PR) is very
> important.
> If it doesn't exist, the github proposal repo may become a collection of
> "throw-out" PRs.
> It's reasonable for me that only committee members can create PRs.
>
>
> In my understanding from your explanation, the proposal process is the
> following:
>
> (1) pre-discussion about a particular proposal [everyone]
>       * privately talk with committee members, or,
>       * talk on the haskell-prime mailing list
>
> (2) creating the new proposal on github [only committee members]
>       * PR by a committee member
>
> (3) open discussion on github [everyone]
>       * conservation on the PR
>
> For me, (1) is now clear.
> If it's written somewhere, it's easy for non-committee members to
> understand the total proposal process:)
>
>
> Thank you for committee's great work,
> Takenobu
>
>
> 2016-10-06 6:50 GMT+09:00 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carter.schonwald at gmail.com');>>:
>
>> I guess the question is what is the definition of issue in that context?
>>
>> Whatever the specifics, I think if you either
>>
>> a) privately talk with a memeber of the committee about what you intend
>> to do and they are willing to "co own" / "sponsor it", and this is
>> indicated in the pr summary or the like
>> B) ask on the list about a particular proposal / pr you wish to write up
>> and at least 2-3 committee members explicitly respond with supportive noise
>> like "sure"/ "go for it" etc, then linking that thread as part of the
>> description of the PR  counts as support by those committee members for
>> that pr
>>
>> (Mind you I'm making up this approach / rubric)
>>
>> The intent I think of the current language in the repo is that drowning
>> in proposals would not be a good state of affairs, and that likewise
>> members of can hold each other accountable.
>>
>> Anyways: what do you have in mind? :)
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','takenobu.hs at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Iavor,
>>>
>>> Members of non prime-commitiee could send pull-request?
>>>
>>>
>>> README.rst [1] is written as follows:
>>>
>>> > While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
>>> entirely new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core
>>> Language Committee.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]: https://github.com/haskell/rfcs
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Takenobu
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-10-04 8:27 GMT+09:00 Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> During our Haskell Prime lunch meeting at ICFP, I promised to create a
>>>> detailed step-by-step guide for creating Haskell Prime proposals on
>>>> GitHub.  The instructions are now available here:
>>>>
>>>>  https://github.com/yav/rfcs/blob/instructions/step-by-step-
>>>> instructions.md
>>>>
>>>> Please have a look and let me know if something is unclear, or if I
>>>> misunderstood something about the process.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Iavor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Haskell-prime mailing list
>>>> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
>>>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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From takenobu.hs at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:56:16 2016
From: takenobu.hs at gmail.com (Takenobu Tani)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 20:56:16 +0900
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAHYVw0z78oJTv1-urtW6=hKcGQpj6sQmCeQ8BsiU0+B-jZLe6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0z78oJTv1-urtW6=hKcGQpj6sQmCeQ8BsiU0+B-jZLe6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPB_NvyRJ5aMJraCVD=rcqhPvnMFteo83kKcb6p=a1MT_Gckyw@mail.gmail.com>

GHC proposal process is active at same time.
To avoid confusion about starting process, it's good that pre-starting
process is written somewhere.

What about directly writing at README.rst as following?
(It's simpler than PR.)

[README.rst]
  While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
entirely
  new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core Language
Committee.
+ If you want to create entirely new issue, privately talk with member of
the
+ committee or ask on haskell-prime mailing list.

I think that non-member will understand pre-process :)

Regards,
Takenobu


2016-10-06 23:38 GMT+09:00 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com>:

> Hrmm, I guess I shall have to do my first pr, unless anyone else thinks we
> should tweet this clarification slightly? But i suppose that can be on the
> pr :)
>
>
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From carter.schonwald at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 16:38:21 2016
From: carter.schonwald at gmail.com (Carter Schonwald)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 12:38:21 -0400
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAPB_NvyRJ5aMJraCVD=rcqhPvnMFteo83kKcb6p=a1MT_Gckyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0z78oJTv1-urtW6=hKcGQpj6sQmCeQ8BsiU0+B-jZLe6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_NvyRJ5aMJraCVD=rcqhPvnMFteo83kKcb6p=a1MT_Gckyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHYVw0x=pQAQoYhZEsAHmMTO-_riwu+srenkMxWgSQMzJOBz5A@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds good to me unless anyone objects or has an alternative?

On Friday, October 7, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com> wrote:

> GHC proposal process is active at same time.
> To avoid confusion about starting process, it's good that pre-starting
> process is written somewhere.
>
> What about directly writing at README.rst as following?
> (It's simpler than PR.)
>
> [README.rst]
>   While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
> entirely
>   new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core Language
> Committee.
> + If you want to create entirely new issue, privately talk with member of
> the
> + committee or ask on haskell-prime mailing list.
>
> I think that non-member will understand pre-process :)
>
> Regards,
> Takenobu
>
>
> 2016-10-06 23:38 GMT+09:00 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carter.schonwald at gmail.com');>>:
>
>> Hrmm, I guess I shall have to do my first pr, unless anyone else thinks
>> we should tweet this clarification slightly? But i suppose that can be on
>> the pr :)
>>
>>
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From carter.schonwald at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 16:39:00 2016
From: carter.schonwald at gmail.com (Carter Schonwald)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 12:39:00 -0400
Subject: Step-by-step guide for creating a new proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAHYVw0x=pQAQoYhZEsAHmMTO-_riwu+srenkMxWgSQMzJOBz5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuoOQZMCKQddFxDdigytZvG-C7EM2fCL-iXUedr39Z2hRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvzew6jvsSs3oQ-V4HgQ7G=VLV=fNge9-4BB+VmwBcrrPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0xnp1HYhdh87EgB886kOck6gZgV9BW1+Pd-2UoXtM-EcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_Nvy8iSVQijxMWe-RuRVkjvZ6TXoXNdq3X+Pitj4_FH=ssQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0z78oJTv1-urtW6=hKcGQpj6sQmCeQ8BsiU0+B-jZLe6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPB_NvyRJ5aMJraCVD=rcqhPvnMFteo83kKcb6p=a1MT_Gckyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHYVw0x=pQAQoYhZEsAHmMTO-_riwu+srenkMxWgSQMzJOBz5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHYVw0y+0Q11MPSfhrM9JosspOZhO2a3jCnEaPDzNP3zRzGqoQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'll have some down time at the airport this afternoon and see about
dealing with this

On Friday, October 7, 2016, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sounds good to me unless anyone objects or has an alternative?
>
> On Friday, October 7, 2016, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','takenobu.hs at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> GHC proposal process is active at same time.
>> To avoid confusion about starting process, it's good that pre-starting
>> process is written somewhere.
>>
>> What about directly writing at README.rst as following?
>> (It's simpler than PR.)
>>
>> [README.rst]
>>   While the process is open for everyone to participate, contributing
>> entirely
>>   new issues is currently limited to the members of the Core Language
>> Committee.
>> + If you want to create entirely new issue, privately talk with member of
>> the
>> + committee or ask on haskell-prime mailing list.
>>
>> I think that non-member will understand pre-process :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Takenobu
>>
>>
>> 2016-10-06 23:38 GMT+09:00 Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hrmm, I guess I shall have to do my first pr, unless anyone else thinks
>>> we should tweet this clarification slightly? But i suppose that can be on
>>> the pr :)
>>>
>>>
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From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 16:41:23 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:41:23 -0700
Subject: Proposal: accept tuple sections
Message-ID: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

it seems that there isn't much controversy over the TupleSections propsal,
so I'd like to move the we accept it for the next language standard.

Does anyone have any objections?

-Iavor
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From johnw at newartisans.com  Wed Oct 12 16:42:26 2016
From: johnw at newartisans.com (John Wiegley)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:42:26 -0700
Subject: Proposal: accept tuple sections
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>
 (Iavor Diatchki's message of "Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:41:23 -0700")
References: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2y41t8qod.fsf@newartisans.com>

>>>>> "ID" == Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com> writes:

ID> it seems that there isn't much controversy over the TupleSections propsal,
ID> so I'd like to move the we accept it for the next language standard.

No objection here.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 17:09:47 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:09:47 -0700
Subject: GitHub proposal repo permissions
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I was just trying to update the `Haskel 2020` project as it is not in sync
with the actual pull-requests, bit I can't see a way to do it.  Am I
missing something, or do I simply not have the required permissions?

If this is indeed a permissions issue, could someone with access fix it
(maybe David?).   Probably the easiest would be to create a group with all
the members and give it access to the repo.

-Iavor
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From hvriedel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 17:26:14 2016
From: hvriedel at gmail.com (Herbert Valerio Riedel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 19:26:14 +0200
Subject: GitHub proposal repo permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>
 (Iavor Diatchki's message of "Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:09:47 -0700")
References: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87mvi9wkax.fsf@gmail.com>

On 2016-10-12 at 19:09:47 +0200, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> I was just trying to update the `Haskel 2020` project as it is not in sync
> with the actual pull-requests, bit I can't see a way to do it.  Am I
> missing something, or do I simply not have the required permissions?
>
> If this is indeed a permissions issue, could someone with access fix it
> (maybe David?).   Probably the easiest would be to create a group with all
> the members and give it access to the repo.

I originally created such groups already,

 - https://github.com/orgs/haskell/teams/core-language-committee
 - https://github.com/orgs/haskell/teams/core-libraries-committee

However, I see now that the core-lang group does not contain all members
it's supposed to contain; I'm specifically missing GitHub user ids for
the following 6 members:

 - Carlos Camarao de Figueiredo
 - Henk-Jan van Tuyl
 - Henrik Nilsson
 - José Manuel Calderón Trilla
 - Jurriaan Hage
 - Mario Blažević

So if you are on of those 6, please let me or David know your GitHub
user id, so we can add you.

If you're *not* on that list, please make sure you can see the core-lang
team URL above, and that it's your GitHub id that is listed for the
Github team (and if not, please let us know too!).

Thanks,
  H.V.Riedel

From rae at cs.brynmawr.edu  Thu Oct 13 00:48:09 2016
From: rae at cs.brynmawr.edu (Richard Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 20:48:09 -0400
Subject: Proposal: accept tuple sections
In-Reply-To: <m2y41t8qod.fsf@newartisans.com>
References: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2y41t8qod.fsf@newartisans.com>
Message-ID: <BE036667-E7A5-49D2-8890-9F2C3BEAA961@cs.brynmawr.edu>

+1

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 12:42 PM, John Wiegley <johnw at newartisans.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> "ID" == Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatchki at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> ID> it seems that there isn't much controversy over the TupleSections propsal,
> ID> so I'd like to move the we accept it for the next language standard.
> 
> No objection here.
> 
> -- 
> John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
> http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-prime mailing list
> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime


From mblazevic at stilo.com  Thu Oct 13 14:55:43 2016
From: mblazevic at stilo.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Mario_Bla=c5=beevi=c4=87?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 10:55:43 -0400
Subject: Proposal: accept tuple sections
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nupo2msbZeBeZ52BVfyb9ke3EG7XzCodShbVExAEwrUhUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5ac072d-5b09-c37c-aa67-abeb956fcae3@stilo.com>

On 2016-10-12 12:41 PM, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> Hello,
>
> it seems that there isn't much controversy over the TupleSections
> propsal, so I'd like to move the we accept it for the next language
> standard.
>
> Does anyone have any objections?

	I have no objection to the proposal in the abstract, but I don't think 
the concrete proposal is completely fleshed out. I'd prefer to see the 
actual modifications to Haskell 2010 grammar, at least, before the final 
vote.

	The above comment should really be in the RFCs repository, attached to 
the proposal. Is that doable?


From dluposchainsky at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:24:38 2016
From: dluposchainsky at googlemail.com (David Luposchainsky)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 19:24:38 +0200
Subject: GitHub proposal repo permissions
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eade3a9b-7028-afcd-d4cc-a009af2fb934@gmail.com>

On 12.10.2016 19:09, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> could someone with access fix it, maybe David

I’m just a regular Haskell member (I think), Herbert gave me the access rights
and I didn’t run into any problems yet. Now that I’m back from my holidays I
guess I’m a bit late to answering your issue.

Anyway, I looked at the RFCS settings, and it seems like I could have added you.
Is the issue resolved, or should I give you permissions?

Greetings,
David

-- 
My GPG keys: https://keybase.io/quchen

From dluposchainsky at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 18 17:31:10 2016
From: dluposchainsky at googlemail.com (David Luposchainsky)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 19:31:10 +0200
Subject: Process question
In-Reply-To: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nupk-bD8GhjQVp6BCA9GV+ekM=517LvSxePNAkRewikNXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d338199d-a7dd-4c7c-8755-04cf772ce3f0@gmail.com>

On 04.10.2016 19:09, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> Now that we've started with a few proposal, I am realizing that I have no idea
> how to proceed from here.

> 1. How would I request I proposal to be rejected

I think we should be discussing things, rather than inventing too many processes.
The number of people participating is still rather small, so verbally stating
that you’re strongly opposed to a feature (in principle or just in its current
form) is fairly visible.

> 2. How would I request that a proposal be accepted

Make yourself the shepherd of the proposal (assign yourself to it), make sure all
questions and concerns have been discussed, then send a “last call” style email
to the mailing lists or other public places you think should give it a final
thought? I think that sounds sensible.

David


-- 
My GPG keys: https://keybase.io/quchen

From iavor.diatchki at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 17:15:18 2016
From: iavor.diatchki at gmail.com (Iavor Diatchki)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 10:15:18 -0700
Subject: GitHub proposal repo permissions
In-Reply-To: <eade3a9b-7028-afcd-d4cc-a009af2fb934@gmail.com>
References: <CAGK9nuo3mi2s7RPuZLQLe+1zUe_gOv4v_8vs-8LQKEfpEmc5oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <eade3a9b-7028-afcd-d4cc-a009af2fb934@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGK9nuq4b8789wsZGZpqd7YHkYQxC3kZ9o+EuTQUNN76Y4ry=w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I think Herbert added me to the correct group, thanks!

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 10:24 AM, David Luposchainsky via Haskell-prime <
haskell-prime at haskell.org> wrote:

> On 12.10.2016 19:09, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
> > could someone with access fix it, maybe David
>
> I’m just a regular Haskell member (I think), Herbert gave me the access
> rights
> and I didn’t run into any problems yet. Now that I’m back from my holidays
> I
> guess I’m a bit late to answering your issue.
>
> Anyway, I looked at the RFCS settings, and it seems like I could have
> added you.
> Is the issue resolved, or should I give you permissions?
>
> Greetings,
> David
>
> --
> My GPG keys: https://keybase.io/quchen
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-prime mailing list
> Haskell-prime at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
>
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