<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">We’re one week out from the release of the survey. I plan on spending this weekend putting the finishing touches on it. Can I plan on announcing it as the official state of Haskell 2018 survey, supported by both Haskell Weekly and <a href="http://Haskell.org" class="">Haskell.org</a>? <br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 17, 2018, at 7:00 PM, Jasper Van der Jeugt <<a href="mailto:m@jaspervdj.be" class="">m@jaspervdj.be</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Hi Taylor,</div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Just a small comment: I would like to keep the survey open a bit longer -- I would suggest two weeks. This gives us a bit more time to push it out twice to as many channels as possible (once at the start and a reminder after a week or so). My intuition is that we'll be able to gather significantly more responses that way.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Thanks again for organizing this!</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Cheers</div><div dir="auto" class="">Jasper</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 00:55, Taylor Fausak <<a href="mailto:taylor@fausak.me" class="">taylor@fausak.me</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thank you all for the wonderful feedback so far! I greatly appreciate all of it. <br class="">
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I didn’t mean to be exclusionary with my language before, and I thank y’all for correcting me there. “We’re doing this together for the benefit of all” is an excellent way to say what I’m shooting for here. <br class="">
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My goal for the survey is to be useful to many different groups of people: the GHC team, library authors, application developers, repository maintainers, prospective employees, hiring managers, community organizers, and no doubt many more groups that I’m not thinking of right now. I want to avoid results that are neat but not useful. I also want to avoid results that simply throw fuel onto common flame wars.<br class="">
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Last year I announced the survey results and provided some commentary. I suspect I’ll do something similar this year, although reading your comments here makes me want to do less analyzing in favor of simply publishing. I am not particularly adept at analyzing survey results and am bound to make some rookie mistakes. In fact, one of the reasons that I published the results last year was so that someone who actually knew what they were doing could slice and dice the data. <br class="">
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As far as scheduling is concerned, I plan to keep the survey open for a week, from November 1st to 7th. Publishing the results should happen relatively quickly after that. I slowed myself down last year by rendering a bunch of graphs, and even so I published on November 15th. <br class="">
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It sounds like the <a href="http://Haskell.org" class="">Haskell.org</a> committee is broadly in favor of backing the upcoming Haskell Weekly survey. Is that correct? In either case, what are the next steps? <br class="">
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> On Oct 16, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Boespflug, Mathieu <<a href="mailto:m@tweag.io" target="_blank" class="">m@tweag.io</a>> wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Since I was pinged up-thread, might as well chime in. If only to say<br class="">
> "I agree": selection bias is what it is. Taylor's efforts to come to<br class="">
> this committee are laudable. And really could help mitigate some<br class="">
> issues we've seen with other surveys. Selection bias isn't something<br class="">
> worth agonizing over, provided we're careful to say in the analysis of<br class="">
> the results: "We found that X% of the respondents of this survey use<br class="">
> Y", not "X% of Haskell devs use Y".<br class="">
> <br class="">
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 21:02, Simon Peyton Jones via Haskell-community<br class="">
> <<a href="mailto:haskell-community@haskell.org" target="_blank" class="">haskell-community@haskell.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> | Hi Taylor. I like the way you pose things here: "I don't expect that<br class="">
>> | to remove selection bias, but it will let me (us, really) say: We're<br class="">
>> | doing this together for the benefit of all sides". I think that's a<br class="">
>> | better place to start from.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> I like this too -- and like Gershom, I'd delete "sides". We aspire<br class="">
>> to work together, not on different sides.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> | earlier I've been thinking about a bit, where you wrote: "My goal is<br class="">
>> | for this survey to be *the* authoritative Haskell survey and for the<br class="">
>> | community to broadly accept it's results."<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> This sounds a bit too exclusive to me, and implicitly critical of other<br class="">
>> work. Better to stick to the positives: you simply want the<br class="">
>> opinions of a broad constituency on a broad range of questions.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> | Anyway, this is all a long-winded way of suggesting that it might be<br class="">
>> | good if the purpose of the survey was explicitly set out as trying to<br class="">
>> | inform developers of haskell libraries and tools (and educational<br class="">
>> | materials) regarding the systems their potential users work on and<br class="">
>> | develop, and their habits and practices in doing so, and where they<br class="">
>> | encounter difficulty. That is explicitly as a way of learning rather<br class="">
>> | than as any sort of horse-race or popularity contest.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> That sounds good to me -- but again in drafting the goals I'd stick<br class="">
>> to the positives, and not speak about horse-races.<br class="">
>> <br class="">
>> Simon<br class="">
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Jasper</div>
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