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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Friends<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’m a little worried at how many cycles we might burn to determine the order of three items in a list, when<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">hopefully it’ll become largely irrelevant when we get the new HP (months not years)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">if the
<i>consequences</i> of choices are clearly articulated, the order is not very important<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I know that high-contributing members of our community have differing, strongly held views; and that these differences are not mere whims but are based on a thoughtful
judgements. If we can’t come to a common view (and we should not take that as failure – professional judgements often differ), perhaps the two points suggest a path to a holding position we can all live with?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">(John: that might mean that the download page has more info than you’d really like, but I think that’s a lesser evil. In any case, as a possibly-weird user, I think
that most download pages are dismayingly short of information.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Haskell-community [mailto:haskell-community-bounces@haskell.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Snoyman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 September 2015 06:42<br>
<b>To:</b> John Wiegley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> haskell-community@haskell.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Haskell-community] Request for comment: New haskell.org download page<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<o:p> </o:p></p>
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<o:p> </o:p></p>
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On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 8:23 PM, John Wiegley <<a href="mailto:johnw@newartisans.com" target="_blank">johnw@newartisans.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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>>>>> Michael Snoyman <<a href="mailto:michael@fpcomplete.com">michael@fpcomplete.com</a>> writes:<br>
<br>
> Secondly, I'd like to make clear what I think the goal for the downloads<br>
> page should be: new users. Experienced Haskellers are unlikely to even visit<br>
> this downloads page, and are likely well aware of the situation around<br>
> tooling to make an informed decision regardless of what this page says. I'd<br>
> like us to constrain discussion to "what's best for a new user." I haven't<br>
> heard anyone object to this idea before.<br>
<br>
I couldn't agree more, Michael. The new user is first in my mind with all of<br>
this.<br>
<br>
Perhaps we need a poll. So far the presented options are:<br>
<br>
1. HP Stack Minimal<br>
2. Stack HP Minimal<br>
3. Stack Minimal HP<br>
4. Minimal HP Stack<br>
5. Minimal Stack HP<br>
<br>
I'll open voting at the current state, choosing #4. My reason is that HP and<br>
Stack will soon merge, and I'm willing to put Minimal first based on<br>
Christopher's and Gershom's arguments.<br>
<br>
Further, the reason HP is staying on the list for now is that I'd prefer not<br>
to conflate issues. I'm happy to start a new discussion, recommending to the<br>
committee that we remove HP, if others wish to.<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p> </o:p></p>
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There was a lot of discussion on Twitter about this thread, but almost none of those participants wrote into this discussion. When I asked why[1], I got (at least[2]) two forms of response:<o:p></o:p></p>
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1. I don't want to sign up for another mailing list just to vote<o:p></o:p></p>
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2. Previous actions made it seem like the voting would be inconsequential to the outcome<o:p></o:p></p>
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To try and lower the barrier to entry, I created a Google Form with the same questions as above:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fforms%2fd%2f1w2wKSxn5YN4LtSXYHvFT2IFw_BDaT_2cjUkP9pDeqLQ%2fviewform%3fusp%3dsend_form&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c9698b16b5e4e4294ffba08d2c56c0b66%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=CPki0hqUyLiyUsklBCLrJID7BgvkL0iJ2PkXLvTFlrU%3d">https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1w2wKSxn5YN4LtSXYHvFT2IFw_BDaT_2cjUkP9pDeqLQ/viewform?usp=send_form</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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I've avoided sending it to "obviously biased" sources, like the Stack mailing list itself. It has 21 responses so far (including one from me for "Stack Minimal HP", so please don't count my vote twice).<o:p></o:p></p>
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Given the obvious sentiment around (2) mentioned above, I think it's important to pay attention to what people are saying outside of this mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
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Michael<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
[1] <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fsnoyberg%2fstatus%2f647243155734155266&data=01%7c01%7csimonpj%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c9698b16b5e4e4294ffba08d2c56c0b66%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=EGGyQKaJI51A1lkrXXq1%2fb08GFGViynlO37qz5%2fWlyQ%3d">
https://twitter.com/snoyberg/status/647243155734155266</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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[2] One person commented that "If they are arguing against you, they aren't going to take my opinion seriously...". That might imply a variant of (2) above.<o:p></o:p></p>
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