<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div><div>Branimir wrote:</div><div>> Two years is not enough to do anything serious in Haskell. That is beyond demo programs.</div><div><br></div><div>This statement carries a lot of assumptions, some of which may be true in this case, some of which may not -- I don't know David James -- but I think it isn't good to let this statement stand on its own like that.</div><div>If a student who has never programmed before starts learning Haskell, they will not be able to succeed professionally after just two years unless they have other useful background knowledge and/or talent (let's not discuss whether talent is a thing or not). However, the email by David James did not sound like he is a beginner in the act of programming; indeed, with experience in imperative (C++, VB), declarative (SQL), functional (Lisp) and logic (Prolog) programming languages, that certainly does not count as "has never programmed before". And I think we can agree that someone with sufficient experience in programming at large can learn to use Haskell effectively in two years (which is quite a long time, even if it's irregular practice). At least, I strongly believe this until proven otherwise. If that is indeed not the case, then something is seriously wrong on Haskell's side, as Gregory has noted below.<br></div><div><br></div><div>David: I haven't read your rewritten State monad tutorial, for which my apologies; also apologies for kind of derailing this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers, and have a great day,</div><div>Tom Smeding</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. This message wasn't accepted by the mailing list earlier, so was just sent to some people personally. Sorry for duplicate emails.<br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 15:14, Gregory Guthrie <<a href="mailto:guthrie@miu.edu" target="_blank">guthrie@miu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">If this is true, Haskell will probably never move up into even the top 40 of used languages, which would be too bad! And it would be interesting to see why – certainly people find good productivity in the mainstream IP languages in even
6-9 months.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> (Look at salaries from bootcamp placements.)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Currently Haskell is significantly below Cobol, Fortran, Lisp, and Pascal in the language usage/ratings. :-(</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Gregory Guthrie</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Maharishi International University</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Haskell-Cafe <<a href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org" target="_blank">haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Branimir Maksimovic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:haskell-cafe@haskell.org" target="_blank">haskell-cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Haskell-cafe] Proposed "Restructuring" of State Monad page in Haskell Wikibooks</p>
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<p>Two years is not enough to do anything seroius in Haskell. That is beyond demo programs.</p>
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<p>Greets, Branimir.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/28/20 6:37 PM, David James wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello – I’m proposing to restructure <a href="https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Understanding_monads/State" target="_blank">
this</a>, and I have a draft <a href="https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Davjam2:Example/StateMonad" target="_blank">
here</a>. I’ve given my main reasons for the restructuring at the top of the draft page.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’d very much like feedback before updating the real page, especially if people don’t like the new one much.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m new here, so should probably say a bit about myself. I’ve been learning-by-doing Haskell for about two years. Sometimes I feel I’m starting to get it, but these feelings don’t usually last long. I’m certainly not an expert, and don’t
have a PhD in Very Clever Things. I do have quite an extensive IT background, originally programming in Lisp and Prolog, then (sadly) C++, VB and SQL but have had quite a long break from programming (doing dumb things like architecting systems and project
managing) before looking at Haskell. I built <a href="https://decimos.net/" target="_blank">this website</a> and
<a href="https://hackage.haskell.org/package/MapWith" target="_blank">this library</a>, just for my own amusement.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Apologies if this isn’t the right place to send this. (But then where is?) I’ve already put a note on the page itself about the new draft, but I’ve no idea whether anyone will notice it.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks very much,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David.</p>
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Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.</blockquote></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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