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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>And to be clear, if it because you don’t want to use a commandline and want an installer</p><p class=MsoNormal>Chocolatey also provides a GUI overlay, It is after all. A bog standard package manager.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://github.com/chocolatey/ChocolateyGUI/releases/download/0.17.0/ChocolateyGUI.msi">https://github.com/chocolatey/ChocolateyGUI/releases/download/0.17.0/ChocolateyGUI.msi</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Is the latest release. It has the familiar “Click and installer asks for UAC and magic happens in background”.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That Pedro may be looking for as well.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Afterwards you just check the box for Haskell-dev and click install.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If you want GHC 8.6.5, you click the all versions button and install that. Haskell-dev is nothing but a wrapper to</p><p class=MsoNormal>Install msys2, ghc and cabal. Select those 3 components and you get the same thing.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So whether you install Haskell-dev and then downgrade to GHC 8.6.5 or you install GHC 8.6.5 + msys2, both should work</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tamar</p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:lonetiger@gmail.com">lonetiger@gmail.com</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, April 25, 2020 10:20<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:jack@jackkelly.name">Jack Kelly</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:dreixel@gmail.com">dreixel@gmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:haskell-cafe@haskell.org">haskell</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Haskell-cafe] When did it become so hard to installHaskellonWindows?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jack,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What made it remarkably tough for students to set up on their machines?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You can still use Haskell-dev if you want older GHCs. Just install it and then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Downgrade the ghc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would be quite interested to figure out what the pain points were.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Surely if they are new to Windows they would have come from a platform where<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>they know what a package manager is.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Would providing a binary to automate the steps work for you? I have been reluctant to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>do so because I don’t want to hide what the installer is doing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tamar<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:jack@jackkelly.name">Jack Kelly</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, April 25, 2020 10:15<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lonetiger@gmail.com">lonetiger@gmail.com</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:dreixel@gmail.com">dreixel@gmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:haskell-cafe@haskell.org">haskell</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Haskell-cafe] When did it become so hard to install HaskellonWindows?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I appreciate that these things are standard tools for Windows<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>developers, but it's worth noting how much harder it can make things<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>for completely new people (either new developers or new to Windows).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>At the start of the year, I prepared install instructions for university<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>students who would be using Haskell as part of a first year CS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>course. We needed to use GHC 8.6.5 because certain libraries were not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>available for GHC 8.8.x (their base upper bounds hadn't updated, which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>ruled out haskell-dev), and tried to use Chocolatey as an experiment.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>It was remarkably tough to get students set up on their own machines. I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>was planning on recommending the Haskell Platform installer for Semester<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>2 this year, and am disappointed to find that it no longer exists.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If it becomes too hard for students to install Haskell on their own<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Windows machines, it may become too hard for us to use Haskell as an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>educational tool, and I'd consider that a tragedy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- Jack<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><lonetiger@gmail.com> writes:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Hi Pedro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I’m the maintainer of those chocolatey packages.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif'>➢</span> First, I have to subscribe to a newsletter? Really? I guess this is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> entirely optional, but the instructions don't make it sound so.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Step 1 is completely optional and you don’t have to subscribe to any news letter.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif'>➢</span> Then I have to know what powershell.exe is, use an administrative prompt, and enter scary commands in it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Powershell has been the standard shell in Windows for well over the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> past decade. Every single script from Microsoft or third parties come<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> with powershell for automation.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> It’s understandable that you may not know it since your primary<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> platform isn’t Windows. But it’s been included in every single Windows<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> version for the past 13 years.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> An administrative prompt is nothing different than running sudo or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> clicking on that installer that you *assumed* not to be scary because<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> you didn’t see the actions it was performing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> That scary looking command is nothing but a curl command allowing the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> one time execution of a script from a remote source. As in a script<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> that’s not physically on your machine.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> So what exactly makes this scary? Is it because<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Set-ExecutionPolicy Bypass -Scope Process -Force;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> [System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol =<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> [System.Net.ServicePointManager]::SecurityProtocol -bor 3072; iex<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> ((New-Object<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> System.Net.WebClient).DownloadString('https://chocolatey.org/install.ps1'))<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Is more verbose than<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> curl -sSL https://path.to.some.script/ | sh<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> or because the technologies used while completely standard on Windows aren’t known to the casual user?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Tamar<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> From: José Pedro Magalhães<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 04:24<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> To: haskell<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Subject: [Haskell-cafe] When did it become so hard to install Haskell onWindows?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I haven't used Haskell in my personal computer in a while. I decided<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> to install it again. I used the Haskell Platform in the past, so I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> went for that again - and a quick Google search on "install haskell<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> windows" brings up the HP page, so I thought I was on the right track.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> At the HP page for Windows, I'm greeted with this:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> In the past I'd just download an installer which would take care of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> things - now it seems to be more complicated. But fine, I followed the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> link to configure Chocolatey. That's where it starts getting really<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> scary:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> First, I have to subscribe to a newsletter? Really? I guess this is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> entirely optional, but the instructions don't make it sound so. Then I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> have to know what powershell.exe is, use an administrative prompt, and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> enter scary commands in it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I gave up at this stage. But going back to the HP page, it appears<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> that even this wouldn't be enough, because I would still need to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> follow "the instructions at haskellstack.org to install stack". The<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> link to haskellstack.org takes me to a 403 Forbidden.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I honestly don't want this to sound like a rant. I genuinely would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> like to understand why this multi-step, multi-tool, multi-website<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> process was introduced, how it is superior to a single installer, and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> whether this is really the process we want newcomers to the language<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> have to follow.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Pedro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>