<div dir="ltr">storage for every package ever released on hackage in the history of haskell on s3 totals < 30 cents per month (probably closer to 10 cents). If their s3 host had super high usage, the most it'd cost per month bandwidth is 50-90 dollars (and likely overestimating by at least 10x). a small engineering team probably spends more than that on coffee per month. <div><br></div><div><a href="http://haskell.org">haskell.org</a> hosting and infrastructure is largely donated by various organizations. If you can get AWS to top the rackspace+dreamhost infra sponsorship, Gershom and others would probably love to hear about it. </div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Blake Rain <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blake.rain@gmail.com" target="_blank">blake.rain@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi All,<div><br></div><div>I have only just found the time to read through this discussion. I thought perhaps I would offer a few thoughts.</div><div><br></div><div>It seems that we are all in agreement that the security of Hackage/Cabal is a problem: insecure transmission and no way to verify package authorship. This is something which I feel we must address:</div><div><br></div><div>Where I work we have a lot of compliance to consider, and a few products require us to provide vary degrees of assurance about the code we link against. This usually leads to the decision to use a third party piece of kit. Going forward, we will need to replace these systems with our own solutions. I would prefer to use Haskell, but swapping out Hackage/Cabal due to security concerns is undesirable from my point of view and the lack of package security will be a show-stopper for senior management.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Using git and S3 as Michael suggests seems a good solution to me. To my mind, the increased transparency, ability to create mirrors of S3 and git to access the package metadata offers a number of desirable features. </div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the use of git: I don't think that we need to implement our own solution, and depending on git is not an issue: Most of our CI uses git anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>A final point I feel I must raise is that it seems that FP Complete are going to be footing the bill for the S3 hosting. Long term, this seems unfair to FP Complete. Is this something that the <a href="http://haskell.org" target="_blank">haskell.org</a> could take on? Or at the very least some other mechanism to either pay for or offer compensation long term?</div><div><br></div><div>Kinds Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>- B.</div></div><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 April 2015 at 11:02, Michael Snoyman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael@snoyman.com" target="_blank">michael@snoyman.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Many of you saw the blog post Mathieu wrote[1] about having more composable community infrastructure, which in particular focused on improvements to Hackage. I've been discussing some of these ideas with both Mathieu and others in the community working on some similar thoughts. I've also separately spent some time speaking with Chris about package signing[2]. Through those discussions, it's become apparent to me that there are in fact two core pieces of functionality we're relying on Hackage for today:</div><div><br></div><div>* A centralized location for accessing package metadata (i.e., the cabal files) and the package contents themselves (i.e., the sdist tarballs)</div><div>* A central authority for deciding who is allowed to make releases of packages, and make revisions to cabal files</div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, fixing the first problem is in fact very straightforward to do today using existing tools. FP Complete already hosts a full Hackage mirror[3] backed by S3, for instance, and having the metadata mirrored to a Git repository as well is not a difficult technical challenge. This is the core of what Mathieu was proposing as far as composable infrastructure, corresponding to next actions 1 and 3 at the end of his blog post (step 2, modifying Hackage, is not a prerequesite). In my opinion, such a system would far surpass in usability, reliability, and extensibility our current infrastructure, and could be rolled out in a few days at most.</div><div><br></div><div>However, that second point- the central authority- is the more interesting one. As it stands, our entire package ecosystem is placing a huge level of trust in Hackage, without any serious way to vet what's going on there. Attack vectors abound, e.g.:</div><div><br></div><div>* Man in the middle attacks: as we are all painfully aware, cabal-install does not support HTTPS, so a MITM attack on downloads from Hackage is trivial</div><div>* A breach of the Hackage Server codebase would allow anyone to upload nefarious code[4]</div><div>* Any kind of system level vulnerability could allow an attacker to compromise the server in the same way</div><div><br></div><div>Chris's package signing work addresses most of these vulnerabilities, by adding a layer of cryptographic signatures on top of Hackage as the central authority. I'd like to propose taking this a step further: removing Hackage as the central authority, and instead relying entirely on cryptographic signatures to release new packages.</div><div><br></div><div>I wrote up a strawman proposal last week[5] which clearly needs work to be a realistic option. My question is: are people interested in moving forward on this? If there's no interest, and everyone is satisfied with continuing with the current Hackage-central-authority, then we can proceed with having reliable and secure services built around Hackage. But if others- like me- would like to see a more secure system built from the ground up, please say so and let's continue that conversation.</div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/03/composable-community-infrastructure" target="_blank">https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/03/composable-community-infrastructure</a> </div><div>[2] <a href="https://github.com/commercialhaskell/commercialhaskell/wiki/Package-signing-detailed-propsal" target="_blank">https://github.com/commercialhaskell/commercialhaskell/wiki/Package-signing-detailed-propsal</a> </div><div>[3] <a href="https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/03/hackage-mirror" target="_blank">https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/03/hackage-mirror</a> </div><div>[4] I don't think this is just a theoretical possibility for some point in the future. I have reported an easily trigerrable DoS attack on the current Hackage Server codebase, which has been unresolved for 1.5 months now </div><div>[5] <a href="https://gist.github.com/snoyberg/732aa47a5dd3864051b9" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/snoyberg/732aa47a5dd3864051b9</a> </div></div><span><font color="#888888">
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