<div dir="ltr">They didn't show code (this is sadly common), so we had only speculation. :(</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:56 AM Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





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<span>> </span>. So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>That should not happen.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Except in the case of single-method dictionaries like<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>                class C a where op ::  a -> a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In these cases the “dictionary” is represented by a newtype, like this<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>                newtype C a = MkC (a->a)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Then you could say<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>                instance C Int where<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>                 op = bottom<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>and now a (C Int) dictionary is simply bottom.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It would be easy to change this decision, and use a data constructor even for single-method classes.  Some programs would become slightly less efficient, but things would be a bit more uniform. 
 If there was a real advantage to doing this, it’d definitely be worth measuring the perf cost (if any).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Simon<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Glasgow-haskell-users <<a href="mailto:glasgow-haskell-users-bounces@haskell.org" target="_blank">glasgow-haskell-users-bounces@haskell.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brandon Allbery<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 August 2021 16:32<br>
<b>To:</b> Tom Smeding <<a href="mailto:x@tomsmeding.com" target="_blank">x@tomsmeding.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> GHC users <<a href="mailto:glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org" target="_blank">glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:sperber@deinprogramm.de" target="_blank">sperber@deinprogramm.de</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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We haven't figured out what they did, but the other day we had someone in #haskell with an infinite loop evaluating a dictionary. So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:27 AM Tom Smeding <<a href="mailto:x@tomsmeding.com" target="_blank">x@tomsmeding.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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Hi Mike,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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> But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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> that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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I assume no, but here the dictionary is embedded as a field in the GADT, right? So if the data value is bottom, there is not even a dictionary to be found, let alone not-bottom.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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This assumes that the Dict in `Entail (Sub Dict)` is a GADT like<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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Dict :: Con b => Dict something<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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where the Con dictionary is contained in the GADT. Remember that in Core, dictionaries are values, and there is no difference between => and ->.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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- Tom<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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-------- Original Message --------<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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On 9 Aug 2021, 15:24, Michael Sperber < <a href="mailto:sperber@deinprogramm.de" target="_blank">
sperber@deinprogramm.de</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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Thanks for thinking about this one!<u></u><u></u></p>
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On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding <<a href="mailto:x@tomsmeding.com" target="_blank">x@tomsmeding.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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> Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here?<u></u><u></u></p>
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> After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom<u></u><u></u></p>
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> (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot<u></u><u></u></p>
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> succeed according to the semantics of Haskell.<u></u><u></u></p>
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But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen?<u></u><u></u></p>
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> I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub<u></u><u></u></p>
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> Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary<u></u><u></u></p>
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> construction will be elided.<u></u><u></u></p>
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Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it<u></u><u></u></p>
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agreed with your first comment:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error:<u></u><u></u></p>
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• Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of ‘r’<u></u><u></u></p>
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from the context: Con a<u></u><u></u></p>
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bound by the type signature for:<u></u><u></u></p>
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(<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r<u></u><u></u></p>
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at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46<u></u><u></u></p>
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• In the expression: r<u></u><u></u></p>
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In an equation for ‘<+’: r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r<u></u><u></u></p>
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• Relevant bindings include<u></u><u></u></p>
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r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1)<u></u><u></u></p>
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(<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r<u></u><u></u></p>
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(bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3)<u></u><u></u></p>
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|<u></u><u></u></p>
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190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r<u></u><u></u></p>
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| ^<u></u><u></u></p>
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Other ideas welcome!<u></u><u></u></p>
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--<u></u><u></u></p>
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Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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Mike<u></u><u></u></p>
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_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p>
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Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list<u></u><u></u></p>
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<a href="mailto:Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org" target="_blank">Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fglasgow-haskell-users&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C7bf3769704884ed6592e08d95b4aeb26%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637641199636853840%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ix06XQPvpu%2B1PLzoc5rRQM6cMv8yPF6o87uVwD0sUwQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org" target="_blank">Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fglasgow-haskell-users&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C7bf3769704884ed6592e08d95b4aeb26%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637641199636863837%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sQDTBnklNv7YLRvhiY5CEtbZgcZT8p7RR%2Bw57sCqFJk%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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brandon s allbery kf8nh<u></u><u></u></p>
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<a href="mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target="_blank">allbery.b@gmail.com</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>brandon s allbery kf8nh</div><div><a href="mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target="_blank">allbery.b@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div>