<html><body><div dir="ltr">
Thanks for your great summary, Arnaud!</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">These are the possible outcomes I see here: could you add your opinions / vote?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">A. Accept the proposal as-is,</div><div dir="ltr">B. Request further changes,</div><div dir="ltr">C. Reject the proposal and direct the authors towards proposal #327.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,</div><div dir="ltr">Alejandro<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El 17 dic 2021 14:35:22, "Spiwack, Arnaud" <<a href="mailto:arnaud.spiwack@tweag.io">arnaud.spiwack@tweag.io</a>> escribió:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="markdown-here-wrapper" style=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">To recapitulate, this proposal remarks that GHC does a pre-pattern-matching-exhaustiveness check during the renaming phase to figure out how whether it needs to insert <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">fail</code> in do-notation statements of the form <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">C x1… xn <- u</code>. It notes that this precheck is heuristic, and decides whether a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">MonadFail</code> constraint will be required during type checking. It argues that this is bad because you may end up being asked for a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">MonadFail</code> constraint when you were careful to write an exhaustive pattern dependent on a GADT’s argument. And that it is a fundamental limitation of the current desugaring scheme.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">All these observations look correct (and were validated, in the PR’s discussion by Sebastian Graf who is quite well-versed in the relevant parts of the code). The argument that it is a bad thing is relatable (heuristic in type checking are generally undesirable).</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">The proposal’s solution is to add an extension which would switch the desugaring of <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">C x1… xn <- u</code> statements to never use <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">fail</code> (instead throw an imprecise exception like regular <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">case</code> expressions). And have incomplete-pattern-matching warnings. Basically treating <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline"><-</code> like a <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">let</code> in this context. I think.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">The problem I see with this solution is that, while it can be argued that it would have been desirable to do just that at the inception of Haskell, it is quite unlikely that we can ever make this the default (considering how much code exists that rely on the current <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">fail</code>-based desugaring, and how hard it would be to track). So such an extension would remain as a switch forever. And I don’t find that it’s particularly worth it.</p>
<hr>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">John Ericsson, who is one of the co-author of the proposal, also wrote a companion proposal <a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/327">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/327</a><br>In this second proposal, he introduces a new statement form for the do notation: <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">case C x1 … xn <- u of { alts }</code>, such that</p>
<pre style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;font-size:1em;line-height:1.2em;margin:1.2em 0px"><code class="hljs language-haskell" style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline;white-space:pre;overflow:auto;border-radius:3px;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0.5em 0.7em;display:block!important;display:block;overflow-x:auto;padding:0.5em;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:rgb(248,248,248) none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><span class="hljs-title" style="color:rgb(153,0,0);font-weight:bold">do</span>
{ <span class="hljs-keyword" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-weight:bold">case</span> <span class="hljs-type" style="color:rgb(68,85,136);font-weight:bold">C</span> x1 … xn <- u <span class="hljs-keyword" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-weight:bold">of</span> { alts }
; stmts }
</code></pre>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">desugars to</p>
<pre style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;font-size:1em;line-height:1.2em;margin:1.2em 0px"><code class="hljs language-haskell" style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline;white-space:pre;overflow:auto;border-radius:3px;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0.5em 0.7em;display:block!important;display:block;overflow-x:auto;padding:0.5em;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:rgb(248,248,248) none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><span class="hljs-title" style="color:rgb(153,0,0);font-weight:bold">do</span>
<span class="hljs-keyword" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-weight:bold">case</span> u <span class="hljs-keyword" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-weight:bold">of</span>
{ <span class="hljs-type" style="color:rgb(68,85,136);font-weight:bold">C</span> x1 … xn -> <span class="hljs-keyword" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-weight:bold">do</span> { stmts }
; alts }
</code></pre>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">The proposal is still marked as WIP, but the general idea is reasonable. This is intended as a replacement of the <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">fail</code> desugaring, by inserting <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">fail</code> (or whatever you see fit) manually: <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">case C x1 … xn <- u of { _ -> fail }</code>.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">But, from my point of view, this proposal could just as well serve as a replacement of the NoFailibleDo proposal being discussed in this thread. Since you could force a fail-free pattern-matching as <code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px 0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-radius:3px;display:inline">case C x1 … xn <- u of {}</code>.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">I personally find this direction much more compelling.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">/Arnaud</p>
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Dear all,</div><div dir="ltr">I missed it back then, but the authors of the “NoFallibleDo” proposal have re-submitted to the Committee.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It seems though that we are still in some form of impasse, without leaning towards acceptance or rejection. From the discussion, I think that the feeling is that this is a desirable feature, but there are different opinions about whether this should be per-module or per-block. It would be great if all of us would discuss this matter (either here or in the GitHub thread) and try to come to a conclusion (or ultimately cast a vote to decide).</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The proposal itself is about being able to tweak whether an incomplete pattern match in a ‘do’ block generates a call to ‘fail’ — as it does now, leading to an additional MonadFail constraint — or works as any other pattern match — leading to a PatternMatchFail exception when a non-matching value comes there.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Once again, I would love to hear your opinions :)</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,</div><div dir="ltr">Alejandro</div><div dir="ltr"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El 23 jul 2021 13:40:26, Alejandro Serrano Mena <<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" type="cite">
<div><div><div dir="ltr">
I’ve been made aware that the “NoFallibleDo” proposal has been re-submitted to the Committee. My current recommendation is “reject”, as outlined in the following comment <a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319#issuecomment-885580010" target="_blank">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319#issuecomment-885580010</a> (TL;DR, you’d often like to enable this for a particular “do” block, not for an entire file).</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,</div><div dir="ltr">Alejandro</div><div dir="ltr"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El 28 jul 2020 11:33:02, Alejandro Serrano Mena <<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Done. Once again, sorry for the confusion.</div><div><br></div><div>Alejandro<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:30, Simon Peyton Jones (<<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>>) escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>OK, so to summarise<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li style="margin-left:0cm"><span>We are waiting for the author<u></u><u></u></span></li><li style="margin-left:0cm"><span>You are encouraging us to comment anyway<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
Correct? Does the author know this? Why encourage only us? Maybe post on Github to clarify the status, and encourage everyone to contribute.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>S<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Alejandro Serrano Mena <<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 10:25<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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I mean the last status, push back to the author for revision.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6pt;margin-left:0cm">
Alejandro<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u> <u></u></p>
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El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:24, Simon Peyton Jones (<<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>>) escribió:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So I’m still confused. “We went back to GIthub”… does that mean that we invited the author to revise and resubmit? I don’t know what else “back to github” means.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If it’s in committee-decision status, then our process says should either accept, reject, or push back to the author for revision, in a timely way (guided by the shepherd)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Simon<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Alejandro Serrano Mena <<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 10:22<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Eric was initially in charge, but I took over his duties. He thought that a bit more discussion was needed, something I agree with, so we went back to GitHub.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Sorry about the stale status, I feel that my back-and-forth was not very clear.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Alejandro<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 11:17, Simon Peyton Jones (<<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>>) escribió:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Alejandro, this one hasn’t been on my radar.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are you the shepherd? Have you made a recommendation? Is the proposal in its final form -- ie having absorbed all discussion etc?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Simon<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> ghc-steering-committee <<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee-bounces@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee-bounces@haskell.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alejandro Serrano Mena<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2020 09:22<br>
<b>To:</b> Joachim Breitner <<a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ghc-steering-committee <<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Please review #319: NoFallibleDo proposal, Shepherd: Eric Seidel</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Dear Committee,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">I would like to kindly ask for your input in the NoFallibleDo proposal ->
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F319&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=DHvjx8qWwjNaa9jn1mdfyBBOqMLJAXdozi3otokRKbk%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/319</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">This was submitted, then there was some discussion, but the conversation has stalled.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Alejandro<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:30, Alejandro Serrano Mena (<<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>>) escribió:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">@Eric congratulations! enjoy! :)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">@Joachim I can take care of this, I think the direction Eric was pushing this is a good one.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 12:16, Joachim Breitner (<<a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a>>) escribió:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
Am Mittwoch, den 13.05.2020, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Eric Seidel:<br>
> My wife and I just checked into the hospital to have our second child<br>
<br>
Congrats, and all the best!<br>
<br>
> , so I’m going to be short on time for committee duties for a few<br>
> weeks. I think it would be best to reassign this proposal so we don’t<br>
> keep the authors waiting. <br>
<br>
Any volunteers?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Joachim<br>
-- <br>
Joachim Breitner<br>
<a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a><br>
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C250fdb186a4a41772fe908d832d82b6c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637315251305340206&sdata=Xf0HrXmVOPpftJaGUUXQo2ztLCjz1sRhN4nJPP%2Fbshg%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
http://www.joachim-breitner.de/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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